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noob

In what ways is Vet Rage's playstyle different from Blackheart?

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Don't get me wrong, I love my Union and really enjoy Blackheart.

I have Alchemists and Butchers (though I have never played any of them beside my Union) and really enjoy how the S2 captains are so different in playstyle than their season 1 counterparts, that way each guild has two varying playstyles at the core level: the captain.

So, the way I play Blackheart, is a strong beater who buffs his teammates around him (Commanding Aura).  So mostly a midfield control/offensive model.  From everything I have read, that is how most people play him.  He is resilient enough to take the middle, dish out a lot of damage, while buffing friendly models against one or two targets.

Looking at Vet Rage, he too can put out quite a bit of damage.  Decently resilient and his abilities are also for directly buffing his friendly models against one or two single models in the middle of the board.  Offensive midfielding captain with an aura to make his dudes hit a bit harder against one or two opponents in the immediate area.

So how are their styles different?

Fillet and Ox are completely different.  Scalpal and Obulus are very different.  Corsair and Shark are very different.  Ballista and Pin Vice are leagues apart.  Smoke and Midas are completely different.  Hammer and Honour only share the first letter of their names.  Tapper and Ester differ a lot as well.

All of those are super solo/team buffer combos.

Both of ours in Union are Team Buffer Beaters.  Am I missing something?

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Blackheart is a bit more slippery than Rage, can do the Misdirection thing and can kick the ball.

Rage is more about damage and getting his guys to gang up on people for increased TAC.

They are both similar, but with Rage you are wanting the Union to stick together more and you'll probably be fielding the more hitty players. Blackheart can play any team and is more adaptable to a changing game.

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Hmm. That makes sense and definitely how they look to be played but I guess I am just a bit sad that all the other guilds have 2 completely differing captains while barely staying within the realm of their guild and then the Union, who could literally be ANYTHING because the can work for any of the guilds, get two very similar captains.

Oh well, other S2 models may change up how these guys are played and may offer a bit of diversity.

 

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1 minute ago, noob said:

Hmm. That makes sense and definitely how they look to be played but I guess I am just a bit sad that all the other guilds have 2 completely differing captains while barely staying within the realm of their guild and then the Union, who could literally be ANYTHING because the can work for any of the guilds, get two very similar captains.

Oh well, other S2 models may change up how these guys are played and may offer a bit of diversity.

 

Not sure the other Guild Captains are that different...

Tapper buffs his players (more Tac, more Inf, more DMG) and so does Esters (more Def, more DMG, more Mov).

Fillet doesn't look like she'll change Butchers into a less hitty team

Corsair is still a ball player first and foremost, just more resilient (and slower) than Shark

Pin Vice and Ballista may seem wildly different, but the passing game remains the Cogs' focus in both cases

Scalpel still looks like a manipulator, just in a different way to Obulus

Smoke's Alchemists are still about the conditions (perhaps more so).

Only one that is really different to their S1 predecessor is Hammer

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1 minute ago, Wynter said:

Not sure the other Guild Captains are that different...

Tapper buffs his players (more Tac, more Inf, more DMG) and so does Esters (more Def, more DMG, more Mov).

Fillet doesn't look like she'll change Butchers into a less hitty team

Corsair is still a ball player first and foremost, just more resilient (and slower) than Shark

Pin Vice and Ballista may seem wildly different, but the passing game remains the Cogs' focus in both cases

Scalpel still looks like a manipulator, just in a different way to Obulus

Smoke's Alchemists are still about the conditions (perhaps more so).

Only one that is really different to their S1 predecessor is Hammer

Fillet is all about the Bleed condition and manipulating her team via stacking those as to Ox is a beatstick himself that help his team focus on one or two models in a turn.

Shark is a super solo kicker that does nothing for his team whereas Corsair works with the team and does what that guild is good at, shooting.

Pin Vice and Ballista are wildly different.  You're right.  The entire guild still focuses on passing BUT my thoughts are how the Captains change the style that guild plays.  Passing is always going to be Engineers BUT Ballista is all about damage at range and hurting from afar while building momentum and PV is about excentuating their passing game while being more resilient.

Scalpal's card looks completely different than how Obulus plays.  Obulus is both manipulator and heavy hitter (8 momentous 2 damage attacks on average a turn can easily take out almost any striker or winger and many captains in the game in a single activation) but scalpel doesn't focus on that.

Smoke and Midas are worlds apart.  Yes, the guild is about conditions but that is NOT what Midas does.  Any Midas player will tell you it's about True Replication and getting him in there to kill multiple models while Smoke is all about field control via AOE ongoing effect clouds and maneuvering herself almost anywhere on the board at her leisure.

I don't know much about Tapper or Esters except what a brewer playing friend of mine said about them, "If I want to go offensive, I play Tapper.  If I want to play defensive, I go Esters."  Which means that their play style are completely different.  Not the guild, the captains.

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Something I was messing with last night was using Second Wind from Decimate to run Avarice (or maybe another character is better?) into melee at the end of their activation and then having Rage use Red Fury to buy attacks for them.  It works as a threat extender for the first turn when Rage probably isn't doing much else.  It felt kind of creative, but then I remembered Blackheart could have probably just charged the same distance all by himself.

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One thing people haven't probably tapped into fully yet, is how much of a "Battery" V-Rage can be.  He can essentially be more attacks for an unrelated model.  Rage's target get out of his way?  Fine... no wasted Influence as you're buying attacks for someone else.  Gutter suddenly can poke that many more times for heals, or a different heavy-hitter who usually tops out early on Inf gets to hit above their pay-grade.

I would argue V-Rage throws peoples because he ISN'T the killy beast you expect from Rage, but instead he's a super-support who can happen to dish damage when really tasked to./

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On 4/10/2016 at 9:29 AM, Neomaxim said:

I would argue V-Rage throws peoples because he ISN'T the killy beast you expect from Rage, but instead he's a super-support who can happen to dish damage when really tasked to./

My multiple dead models beg to differ. He's absolutely a killy beast, it's just not the only thing that he does.

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But is he better than Blackheart? I see the battery argument...and then I think, yeah but 4 INF on Blackheart could do more. My main problem with vRage is that he lost a lot going to captain (no bleed??) and yet doesn't seem to have gained anything other than a situational play requiring people to gang up. The issue is - normal Rage with tooled up and a charge was usually much more efficient - and tooling up Blackheart creates a threat zone of dangerous proportions. 

I'm just not sold on vRage until I see someone better than me use him in a way I feel is superior to Blackheart + Rage. He feels like he's lacking something.

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Blackheart has Dodges but no Pushes. Rage has Pushes but no Dodges (though he has Quick Time), and can access Pushes on other models' playbooks via Red Fury. Which is to say, Blackheart is better at manipulating the positioning of himself/his own team, while Rage is better at manipulating the position of the enemy. I'll grant that both have access to Gutter anyway, but Rage's *low playbook* is way more interest than Blackheart's and is replete with Momentous combined Damage/Push results.

Rage also comes with denial and damned if you do/damned if you don't tech in Rising Anger.

EDIT: To make his functional low playbook even more interesting, Rage also has a Momentous Knockdown on a 1 and Momentous Singled Out on a 1... as long as Fangtooth and Avarisse are standing in the right places.

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Aye, that's my beef - he's super situational. IF X and Y, IF A and B...and Blackheart does it all and supports his team (Legendary, Commanding Aura) and does similar amounts of damage. And can take Rage!

I'm not seeing why vRage is a viable alternative. His puppet ability is nice, but...yeah. I just don't think it's similar to what Blackheart brings or different enough. I'm sure vRage is fine - I need to play him more I guess. But man, 11" of threat + Command Aura is a lot better than 8"...

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I Like to play for goals over take outs so heavily favor Blackheart. His goal threat is pretty darn good with momentous dodges on one, shadow like ,and feat.

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Not so sure Bloody Coin is that situational. I never have issues making it happen, it's just a question of keeping everyone reasonably close (but not that close), much as you would if you were playing Brewers.

I'm not a good enough player to judge if Blackheart is better or not (although lots of people better than me say that he is), but I enjoy Vet. Rage's playstyle. It's nicely focused on ganging up and taking people out, which is rarely a bad way to play.

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Also I was thinking about this this morning and a crucial way they're different is that every single one of V.Rages attacks is exactly the most powerful/needed attack you can conceivably make at the time you choose to activate him.  

He solves a lot of mid game OOA issues just by having red mist. 

That in itself is almost good enough to take him. Granted in some situations the other players he's leveraging may not be as good but there's certainly something to say about having your first attack leverage Avarisse for a singled out or a knock down so you can then charge for free etc. 

He definitely rewards a nuanced understanding of opportunity cost. 

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