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arabicjesus

Winning Ways for your Guild Ball Plays (BLOG)

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Surprised people are so down on Boar.. in my first 2 games with him he just did so much. If you're engaged by one person, you can take a attack KD if they counter, if not re attack and then KD, then charge elsewhere.

you have to charge at the right time, often I try to go as late as possible with him to stop him getting swarmed. 

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I think Boar is a fine player, but given all the options I have I would rather pick others over him. Right now I have Tenderizer in my 9 and that might change to Boar. In Season 2 I stopped playing Rage, and Boar does the same sort of thing, so I am not excited to play a player that is similar to one I stopped playing before. Now that is talking in a tournament setting. He will see plenty of play in my fun games.

 

That does give me an idea about amending that article ,though...

Edited by arabicjesus
Inspiration.

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Put up two things today. First, a small aside about how likely it is to make a goal or pass (with the new rule taken into account): here. Second, an article about Boiler (its short, but mostly because I've said a lot about Boiler before): here.

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On 12/13/2016 at 7:42 AM, NowYouSeeMe said:

Surprised people are so down on Boar.. in my first 2 games with him he just did so much. If you're engaged by one person, you can take a attack KD if they counter, if not re attack and then KD, then charge elsewhere.

you have to charge at the right time, often I try to go as late as possible with him to stop him getting swarmed. 

Ran the numbers on this. It's legit. Find those numbers here.

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13 hours ago, arabicjesus said:

Ran the numbers on this. It's legit. Find those numbers here.

Dude that's sweet. I appreciate the time to work the numbers out, I had my first semi-awkward game with Boar last night but Boiler managed to Mark target, take some push / dogdes and bring the target in range of Boar. He then of course, did a TON of work.

I think if you commit him too early, or commit him to a situation where the easy thing to do for your opponent is simply take him out / use him for a load of momentum he can be a liability. 

I personally have 2 ways of activating him - 


Either my second / first activaiton - typically I do this if I think Boar is going to be tied up later in the turn and I know I'm going to be applying a lot of pressure, meaning if they choose to actively focus Boar I know Boiler/Meathook will be going into there team also. That normally makes it very hard to kill Boar, or simply makes it a flat worse option then dealing with my players in there face. 

Or my Fifth or Sixth activation - I do this against line ups where I think Boar is very vulnerable (Tapper Brewers, Attricemen etc) so he doesn't get Ganged Up and simply bullied once he's in the scrum.

Lastly I think you need to get creative with how you get Boar into combat. a 8" threat is not good, I'll often use Meathook to push a player, apply hooked to help bring players into threat (She's the perfect set up) Boiler can often afford to take 1 marked target if he has 4. Lastly kicking the ball to Boar to just have him dodge that 4" is another good way to get him about. 

I will say, I'm only 6 games with Butchers (All this week) but my own experience with Boar has been very good. He simply deletes average players with little effort, and any set up like Hooked, Tooled up, The Owner, Get em Lads means he destroys the most tanky of players. I think there is bad match ups for him, Attricmen may be the worst due to a ton of 2" reach paired with counter attacks that are used to dis-engage. I think swapping a player Shank, or Tenderizer in for those match ups is the way to go. 

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I'm glad you've had so much success with him. He will probably replace Tenderiser in my 9 man roster since I'm not too hot on Tenderiser right now. Boiler does more damage per hit than Boar, but, of course, Boar is much more efficient. He really got a boost with the new playbook.

 

I came to post my latest article. On Tenderiser this time. He has a specific job and isn't too fancy or noticeable when he's doing what he's good at: Find it here.

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On 12/15/2016 at 10:47 AM, arabicjesus said:

I'm glad you've had so much success with him. He will probably replace Tenderiser in my 9 man roster since I'm not too hot on Tenderiser right now. Boiler does more damage per hit than Boar, but, of course, Boar is much more efficient. He really got a boost with the new playbook.

 

I came to post my latest article. On Tenderiser this time. He has a specific job and isn't too fancy or noticeable when he's doing what he's good at: Find it here.

 
 
 
 

I really like Tenderizer against lineups that want to post a great kicker near the goal for Snap Shots (Engineers and Fish come to mind, although Mash and Midas don't like him either).  With 5+ on Snap Shots you're looking at 40%, 54%, and 65% with 4, 5, and 6 dice.  That's a big coin flip for 2 or 3 momentum against ball teams.  You can use your mascot and Tenderizer to make a base wall and block LOS, bringing the number to 6, which is basically impossible to snap shot into.

You can also force Seismic Kick to hit your target without Bonus Time by standing base to base.

 

I think S3 focuses the game more towards soccer, and having a speed bump against enemy ball teams really helps keep us keep up in the scoring race.

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Hey i have been reading your blog posts on butchers firstly keep up the good work!  It has really helped me a lot.  Secondly the Tenderizer article was spot on.  he makes me feel like he can do things but he doesnt make me feel like he can do a lot.  I have gotten the charge with him once and it saved the day.  beyond that i feel like he donest bring enough else to the field to even make the 9 man roster.  I want him to be better.  or i really want to learn how to use him.  on paper he seems like he is solid, but he doenst hold up very well on the table.  any additional thoughts? 

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New article on Decimate: here.

 

 

On 12/27/2016 at 4:05 PM, Shengles said:

Hey i have been reading your blog posts on butchers firstly keep up the good work!  It has really helped me a lot.  Secondly the Tenderizer article was spot on.  he makes me feel like he can do things but he doesnt make me feel like he can do a lot.  I have gotten the charge with him once and it saved the day.  beyond that i feel like he donest bring enough else to the field to even make the 9 man roster.  I want him to be better.  or i really want to learn how to use him.  on paper he seems like he is solid, but he doenst hold up very well on the table.  any additional thoughts? 

I'll keep trying him out and if I come up with anything I'll make sure to write about it, but he just doesn't seem worth taking.

 

As for the tech against snap shots, he does make that harder, but your games must go a lot differently than mine. I have not seen an opponent try for snap shots (besides Mat Hart) in games I've played. I have tried some snap shots before, but that math never seems to make it worth it. It's so easy to put a guy or two into the model that is going to make the snap shot and make it unlikely without even having to put Tenderiser in there.

 

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Finally got around to writing the article about the Ox changes from last summer. I've had plenty of chances to play him since then, so get ready for some cold takes: here.

Finally got around to writing the article about the Ox changes from last summer. I've had plenty of chances to play him since then, so get ready for some cold takes: here.

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@arabicjesus thanks for doing the math, I also think you are right that the susceptibility to counter attacks can sometimes be crippling. Something that your tables don't show: besides counter attacks, defensive stance is a serious problem for a model that has KD on the 4th column. That would mean you should introduce the 5/1, 6/0 etc. line in your charge/KO scheme, which would make the picture even less rosy.

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I think the focus on averages misses something I find really important about new Ox: the 3dmg Butchery on 6 hits. This has come down a column and becomes quite achievable on the charge and under some of the defensive debufs butchers can put out. I went in on hearth during his legendary turn and put one out with each hit! That's the biggest impact of the changes I've found.

Cheerio,

Ben

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5 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

I think the focus on averages misses something I find really important about new Ox: the 3dmg Butchery on 6 hits. This has come down a column and becomes quite achievable on the charge and under some of the defensive debufs butchers can put out. I went in on hearth during his legendary turn and put one out with each hit! That's the biggest impact of the changes I've found.

Cheerio,

Ben

Oh my.. That sounds amazing. And brutal. How did that turn go all in all? :D

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10 hours ago, Furnace said:

Oh my.. That sounds amazing. And brutal. How did that turn go all in all? :D

3 kills in the turn, but nearly 4. Ox got Hearth and a big chunk of iron. Meathook finished off iron. Boar did for burnish and shank got to alloy after he ran away, leaving him on about 2. That took me to 8-4 (one goal to the smiths) with alloy about to die at the top of the next turn and my opponent conceded.

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2 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

3 kills in the turn, but nearly 4. Ox got Hearth and a big chunk of iron. Meathook finished off iron. Boar did for burnish and shank got to alloy after he ran away, leaving him on about 2. That took me to 8-4 (one goal to the smiths) with alloy about to die at the top of the next turn and my opponent conceded.

That is one legendary turn indeed. Haha, amazing. 

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41 minutes ago, Furnace said:

That is one legendary turn indeed. Haha, amazing. 

If blacksmiths scrum up and try to fight against Ox they're going to have a very bad day. Their combination of low defence and high armour is a liability when you've got two tools for reducing armour and a number of ranged character plays that can ruin stack up the damage. I ran some numbers earlier on boar - under a single damage buff only he has a really good chance of taking down pretty much any apprentice in a single turn. Under Ox's legendary I suspect that extends to the masters, too.

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On 2/7/2018 at 11:23 AM, angyi said:

@arabicjesus thanks for doing the math, I also think you are right that the susceptibility to counter attacks can sometimes be crippling. Something that your tables don't show: besides counter attacks, defensive stance is a serious problem for a model that has KD on the 4th column. That would mean you should introduce the 5/1, 6/0 etc. line in your charge/KO scheme, which would make the picture even less rosy.

You are right, I did no math on the defense stance for the high end models. I love suggestions like this. A avenue to improve my articles for the future. I'll be adding that row of 5/1 and 6/0.

 

22 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

I think the focus on averages misses something I find really important about new Ox: the 3dmg Butchery on 6 hits. This has come down a column and becomes quite achievable on the charge and under some of the defensive debufs butchers can put out. I went in on hearth during his legendary turn and put one out with each hit! That's the biggest impact of the changes I've found.

Cheerio,

Ben

I have not had the success you have of reaching that result. I have used butchery a lot when Ox has been shut down from counter attacks, but it seems like I never get to the 3 damage butchery on his playbook.

And I believe we have discussed elsewhere (Twitter, I believe), that I have had a much different experience into Blacksmiths than you have. My local blacksmith player won't even try to fight the butchers. He takes the fast, goal scoring models and scores 3 goals before I can even start a scrum (1 goal on turn 1, and sometimes 2 on turn 2). He knows how to play against the butchers well, and it's really hard to keep the ball from Iron, Alloy, and Bolt at the same time. I can take out a couple models before he gets his three goals, but it's not enough, and he views me taking a goal as a good way to get the ball back, since he can score much better and faster than I can with the butchers. He's a bit of a savant with them. I beat him consistently with any other guilds we play, but he beats me all the time with blacksmiths, no matter what I try. So my experience against blacksmiths might come down to playing a person that has found the perfect guild for himself and not an indication of the normal Butchers vs. Blacksmiths game.

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Hey guys, I'm resurrecting this thread because I've resurrected my article series. It's been a little while, and even longer for Butchers, but with season 4 reveals coming out I've started writing and doing math again. So far I have Boiler and Ox articles for season 4, and plan to do the rest. Either as they come out, or right after the season 4 drop at Steamcon.

Here they are: Ox and Boiler

Hey guys, I'm resurrecting this thread because I've resurrected my article series. It's been a little while, and even longer for Butchers, but with season 4 reveals coming out I've started writing and doing math again. So far I have Boiler and Ox articles for season 4, and plan to do the rest. Either as they come out, or right after the season 4 drop at Steamcon.

Here they are: Ox and Boiler

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I'm going to get an article on Fillet done shortly after the Butchers cards are revealed, and put up another article each day at noon EST until I've covered every model in the guild. I'll go over changes and do expected relevant results (similar to my recent Ox and Boiler articles). You'll be able to find them at mountaineersguild.com (and I'll post links here).

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Fillet going up much later than I intended, but here it is:link.

If you want to see the articles as soon as they go up, follow @mountaineersgwv on twitter (the twitter for the website).

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