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Banjulhu

How can I use Salt?

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I have a very low opinion of Salt. I dislike his largely lackluster stats, his only trait triggers upon his demise so is more a consolation prize and his character play is a dodge, but being able to move anywhere with relative ease is not a great benefit unless you can do something once you get there.

I've heard people say he should be used to move the ball around, but as a fisherman I would rather move and pass the ball to generate momentum and gain field position than use our mascot

That leaves me with two viable uses for Salt beyond being a required 6th model.

Buffing Angel, not a glamourous job and one Angel can do herself. This feels far too niche a roll given it is only useful if Angel is on the team and that is not a definite given Sakana is now available to take her place.

Tackle support. Get Salt in 1" of an enemy and he can give you an extra dice, sounds good except Salt is the most vulnerable member of the team with his Def 5 and 8 hits. At best he is easily pushed away or simply just walked away from given a parting blow from him will do bugger all to an enemy before an oponent goes to town on a key target. At worst he becomes 8 hit points in combat range in a game where you get rewarded for taking models out of the game.

Am I missing something about our mascot? What is he meant to be doing for the team other than provide 1 influence? How can what he has going for him be used by the team?

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I agree he might not be as strong as some of the other mascots but he's alright. I like to use him around the middle of the field generally behind Jac or Kraken, then after I score a goal attempt to use him to go grab a loose ball and run it back towards my players. If this gets him near Angel great if not I can sometimes use Jac to get another big move out of the ball to position for later. He is not great but people will try to avoid taking him out until the end of there turns which leaves some options available to what will threaten him. Just a thought, not saying he is amazing but I like him.

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What'll be interesting is the Season 2 mascot. Do they make it decent and we never see Salt again? Or were Fishermen balanced around lackluster mascots and they'll all be that way?

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If they're attacking Salt, they're not attacking your more important pieces, who should be scoring/attacking the ball every activation they don't kill them.

If Salt were better this would still be true, only Salt would be able to contribute meaningfully as well. ;) Being a lightning rod gives Salt a purpose, but it doesn't make him useful especially since it's not up to you whether he gets attacked or not.

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Chuck him infront of your own goal, they either need to commit someone deep to kill him or just leave him standing there making most of your opponents shots on goal lose a dice... And can also grab the ball in a pinch if they miss and drop it of for someone to pick it up.

Clutching at straws as has already been said, but that's how I use him.

Cheers,
Alex

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He's a weak mascot, but Fishermen are a strong team.

A useful end of turn Salt activation is to charge, nab the ball and then use Where They'd Go to drop it somewhere useful for one of your strikers to pick up the following turn (if you're going to get initiative).

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I use him with Jac. I have him hang around behind Jac most of the game until he has a chance to scoop a ball up after Jac tackles it after from someone then get to use his normal activation after. So really only thing that makes him decent is out of activation movement with Jac to place him in good positions to get the ball or be some kind of threat for the following turn.

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He's a weak mascot, but Fishermen are a strong team.

A useful end of turn Salt activation is to charge, nab the ball and then use Where They'd Go to drop it somewhere useful for one of your strikers to pick up the following turn (if you're going to get initiative).

Show of hands: who feels like they have decent shot at winning initiative more than 1 turn in 3 (1st turns don't count)? I rarely generate that kind of surplus Momentum.

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Show of hands: who feels like they have decent shot at winning initiative more than 1 turn in 3 (1st turns don't count)? I rarely generate that kind of surplus Momentum.

Depends on the turn and what I think I'll be able to achieve.  If I'm not in a decent position to get the ball and head for goal I will probably load up my easy momentum guys (Sakana, Shark, Fangtooth, Greyscales) and have them just hit on the opponent either dodging to a more advantageous position or knocking down where possible.  I've had a few turns where I've finished with 6-8 MOM looking for the initiative to attack the ball carrier, tackle and go for goal.

 

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Depends on the turn and what I think I'll be able to achieve.  If I'm not in a decent position to get the ball and head for goal I will probably load up my easy momentum guys (Sakana, Shark, Fangtooth, Greyscales) and have them just hit on the opponent either dodging to a more advantageous position or knocking down where possible.  I've had a few turns where I've finished with 6-8 MOM looking for the initiative to attack the ball carrier, tackle and go for goal.

 

What this guy said. 

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Depends on the turn and what I think I'll be able to achieve.  If I'm not in a decent position to get the ball and head for goal I will probably load up my easy momentum guys (Sakana, Shark, Fangtooth, Greyscales) and have them just hit on the opponent either dodging to a more advantageous position or knocking down where possible.  I've had a few turns where I've finished with 6-8 MOM looking for the initiative to attack the ball carrier, tackle and go for goal.

 

I get that that can happen sometimes, but if you can do this in the same turn you can have Salt tackle the ball and leave it for a good starting position it seems likely you can try to score that same turn already anyway. And by activating Salt early you'll know whether you get the 4 successes you need for a tackle and WTG from a single attack or not. That's not a big deal if you can win initiative and at least get out of the other guy's melee zone, but all of this is not a given with Salt's TAC 2 unless your opponent leaves the ball on an easy mark (he can always just drop the ball to prevent tackles after all, the current bane of my existence when my opponent shuts me out).

I've had the occasional big Momentum harvesting round myself, but especially post-errata they're not exactly the norm and when they do occur I often seem to have more pressing uses for that Momentum than setting up a goal next turn by holding back Salt. Could just be me though.

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We have different play styles it seems because Salt does nothing for me except stick with Angel if she's on the park or stay out of the way until I want the Loved Creature benefits at which time I will just run him through 2 or 3 opponents' melee zones and take the parting blows ... with kick 1/4" he aint my go to ball carrier ... I've done it in the past and it's proven to hinder more than help.

Shark, Sakana,  Greyscales and Angel are my go to people for that .. all can get momentum off 1 hit and the first 3 have tackles on 2 .. I just need to factor in a second hit if I dont have the ball yet.

Edited by Shano

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Show of hands: who feels like they have decent shot at winning initiative more than 1 turn in 3 (1st turns don't count)? I rarely generate that kind of surplus Momentum.

I almost always win first activation as fishes. 99% of what they do generates momentum. I haven't picked a damage result from a playbook ever. The only non-momentous thing I do is tackle. Not only that, but you have all the tools to definitely win first activation on the 2nd turn, since shark is so damned fast he should be generating you 6 whether you kick off or receive. The 3rd turn you should definitely win first turn, because you probably used your legendary on the 2nd turn, and you can't generate momentum when you can't move.

On top of all that, the fishermen are incredibly well set up to negate momentum generation through counter attacks. Not only does most of the team have 2" melee, they all have dodges and good statlines.

That's been my experience anyway.

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How are you getting 6 momentum out of Shark in one actiavtion? His playbook is so deep the likelyhood of him wrapping for double results is mimimum and he has to spend influence just to boost his threat range enough in turn 1 to be able to make combat

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On top of all that, the fishermen are incredibly well set up to negate momentum generation through counter attacks.

Which costs momentum, and in my experience usually serves to turn damage taken into a knockdown. It's rare for me to even get an even exchange on Momentum via Counterattacks, let alone come out ahead.

Edited by Pangur Ban

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I've very disappointed that no-one suggested some basic staples like putting salt on eggs or chips.

But more seriously, Salts mobility is what makes him useful. Yes, you can leave him as an Angel buffer (which is fine use if it keeps Angel up and Angel gets to lurk in front of the goal and win you the game). But with 1 influence, Salt can go anywhere. Which means Salt can easily chase loose balls, or just go stand in that awkward position, or lend an assist (genuinely not nothing), move the ball, engage a striker that doesn't have the influence to deal with Salt and force a parting blow, etc.

This, of course, multiplies if you have Jac in the team.

Furthermore, I think you're overstating the usefulness of opposition mascots.

Dirge largely does exactly the same stuff, except isn't as mobile.
Scum: largely the same stuff (being a mobile dice) with a little bit better ability to avoid being hit.
Flask: nothing. Flask mostly does nothing except drop smoke clouds.
Marbles: provides lots of dice to Honour, can goad and tool her up. But to do most of that, he has use a lot of influence on an influence hungry/light team.
Mainspring: is ridiculously OP.
Princess: is pretty cool, but will still spend most of its time being a mobile dice because of influence issues. Still isn't as mobile as salt.
Snake: The gimmick is cool.

So you have two mascots will cool gimmicks, two that need influence to awesome (which they won't get), a couple that try and do the same 'mobile' thing, and... Flask. 

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Salt cant do much with a parting blow, he can get a 1 inch dodge, 1 damage or a tackle off, unless you get him into a model with the ball nothing is going to care about taking a parting blow from him and even if the model does have the ball you only get 4 dice to get to get the tackle off.

As to chasing balls, blocking lanes and lending assists, all the team can do those roles (often better) and usually have other things as well to make them more useful, so Salt being able to do them does not really raise him above the status of model we have to take.

Edited by Banjulhu

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Dirge largely does exactly the same stuff, except isn't as mobile.

Dirge doesn't care about terrain, can be brought back so you don't lose an activation per turn and can provide up to 3 extra dice for attacks in a team that's rarely going to try to win without at least 4 takouts. I think you're seriously underestimating that damned bird.

Princess with a single Inf can be more useful than Salt with 2 and while Scum isn't in Princess' league, he/she can still also do as much with 1 Inf as Salt with 2 - and in both cases I can argue Salt without 2 Inf really doesn't do anything other than moving around. TAC 2 without charge dice is too unreliable compared to TAC 4. Salt's Kick stat is too poor to reliably pass with as well, so as a ball carrier it's all about dropping the ball rather than passing. And situations where it's worthwhile to give Marbles an Inf (or even 2) are much easier to set up than situations where Salt is going to be reliably useful. 

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I've very disappointed that no-one suggested some basic staples like putting salt on eggs or chips.

But more seriously, Salts mobility is what makes him useful. Yes, you can leave him as an Angel buffer (which is fine use if it keeps Angel up and Angel gets to lurk in front of the goal and win you the game). But with 1 influence, Salt can go anywhere. Which means Salt can easily chase loose balls, or just go stand in that awkward position, or lend an assist (genuinely not nothing), move the ball, engage a striker that doesn't have the influence to deal with Salt and force a parting blow, etc.

This, of course, multiplies if you have Jac in the team.

Furthermore, I think you're overstating the usefulness of opposition mascots.

Dirge largely does exactly the same stuff, except isn't as mobile.
Scum: largely the same stuff (being a mobile dice) with a little bit better ability to avoid being hit.
Flask: nothing. Flask mostly does nothing except drop smoke clouds.
Marbles: provides lots of dice to Honour, can goad and tool her up. But to do most of that, he has use a lot of influence on an influence hungry/light team.
Mainspring: is ridiculously OP.
Princess: is pretty cool, but will still spend most of its time being a mobile dice because of influence issues. Still isn't as mobile as salt.
Snake: The gimmick is cool.

So you have two mascots will cool gimmicks, two that need influence to awesome (which they won't get), a couple that try and do the same 'mobile' thing, and... Flask. 

flask gets intensify on a single success, and explodes when he dies, he's not rubbish 

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