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Everything posted by Pentagon

  1. Pentagon

    Tactics for a new player

    Hi there, Sorry I wasn't able to reply before the event (I hope you had fun) I'm going to be honest, if the beat down game doesn't appeal, then Mason's are not an ideal team for you. We are the flexible team. In some matchups you'll want to beat them up, in some matchups you want to try and score. But really a 2/2 game is a lot easier to get for masons than a 3/0. If I was to play a goals 3/0 team I would play: Honour Harmony Flint Snakeskin OChisel Wrecker O-chisel is a very good retriever with a momentous tackle on 1, reach 2 and tac 6. ****HOWEVER**** If you played this team into me, I would hide the ball in a huge scrum and dare you to come and get it. If you look at the teams that aim to go 3-0 they have tech to get the ball that isn't tackling. Examples: Siren- making them pass the ball from range / Balls Gone / Vet Sakana who can tackle someone nearby to get the ball. Because Masons arn't a 3/0 team they don't have access to any of this, which means that whilst the above team CAN go 3/0 if your opponent is sensible and kills the ball, you kinda don't have anything you can do about it. I have won games 3/0 with Masons, but generally thats with a more mixed team, and because the opponent is trying to keep players safe from the beatdown they've been vulnerable to me scoring. Masons are good at attacking both and winning on whichever they let you have. I would recommend that you try a few games with fish if you can borrow/proxy them and see how they are different and make an informed choice about what team you want to be playing. Best, Pentagon
  2. Pentagon

    Season 4 Player Summaries

    Season 4: Player Summaries Hello, please find some ranting about S4 mason players, current focus on Honour team. Note that Hammer tends to play quite differently, but of course some applies to both. Honour (C) The First Lady of Guildball has excellent stats and is a powerful all round captain. Her playbook is very good, and having double dodge available on 2 is a very useful counter attack (held back only by her reach of 1). Honour's signature ability superior strategy cost four, (making it as far as i'm aware the joint most expensive play in the game). However, it gives an additional influence to a player and gives them an additional activation. (Why is that good?) Well, Masons don't have many ranged plays, which would give them an otherwise weak turn 1. TURN 1 Superior Strategy However, in a typical Honour team, Honour / Any mascot / Tower / Ochisel / Flint / Granite You allocate 3-4 to Chisel, 6 to Honour, 1 to Tower, 3-4 to Flint Depending on flint kicking or receiving, he will do something with the ball, having 4 on him. But, what you are trying to do is to move Chisel into the middle of the board (preferably within 10 of a reach 1 victim that they have already moved.) Tower will then tool up Chisel. Your final activation will be to activate Honour, who will both superior strategy Chisel and Quick Time her. You will then have your 7th activation which lets Chisel walk up to her target, who in an ideal world will have reach 1 and can't respond with counter attacks. You heroic, so with tooled up you're doing +2 damage. Hitting momentous 2 on 2, gives you 4 damage. Letting you do 16 damage. However, if you are going to win the MP race, (which with +4 you may well) it is sometimes advised to leave your victim on 1-2 health. You then activate Chisel immediately at the top of turn 2, finish off the target, then instead of running forwards and attacking someone else, you run chisel 6-8 back to the protection of the rest of your team. Even with arm 3, it is very rarely a good idea to give her undefended to your opponent, bring her back so that Honour/Granite can protect her. If you are unsure whether you will kill the target, I often allocate her 2-3, with a view of running her back to my lines with 1-2 influence, whilst this may be wasted, if I Superior Strategy her, it will be available again. See Turn 2+ Superior Strategy below. Turn 2+ Superior Strategy You may find, when you are playing against another scrummy team, that whoever commits to the attack first gets punished. For example the first model to advance into their scrum will be retaliated against by their captain with a stack of 6 etc. This is most evident in the Butcher matchup, where you know that whoever goes to attack the butcher lines will have the Master Butcher go ham (get what I did there), on them. This is bad. HOWEVER, the good news is that the Butcher's have the same problem that Honour will threaten death to anyone who they commit. Plus they have to play around Granite etc. So it's entirely possible that they will play a stand offy game, where Brisket and Boiler pepper you with ranged plays, but they don't want to commit. This is where Superior Strategy comes in, as it allows you to get back to back activations. Again, it's best with OChisel where it lets you at the end of the turn, get Chisel tooled up with iron fist over, to plonk 4 attacks onto boiler or brisket. Avoiding counter attacks or Unpredictable Move. Again, you want to reset, by running her top of the next turn to the warm protection of Granite and Honour, else you let poor Chisel get issolated. Remember, time is on your side. In this matchup, I spent 12 influence to kill Princess for 1vp and considered myself up because of it. 6 influence to superior strategy and quick time, 1 to run chisel, then 4 attacks, and 1 to tool up. The point is, your influence resets next turn, so IF YOUR OPPONENT got nothing out of the turn then spending 12 influence to get 1VP is absolutely fine. In stally play, you're playing to keep your formation intact (keep Honour's activation back as long as you can, because once she's gone, the opposing players can come in, knowing the First Lady isn't able to smack them up.) Always look for opportunities to get a small advantage and reset, unless the opportunity to dominate and crack their formation presents itself. Honour + Vet Chisel This strategy allows you to superior strategy Honour herself, and then use Vet Chisel to reellocate her back to full, allowing you to have a 7th activation with her, with full influence. If I'm honest, I've not played this variant, as I find Ochisel works so well with Honour (see the million lines of text above). I am not sure which matchups where this is super relevent, my problem with it, is it forces you to activate Honour earlier in the turn, and its main advantage is allowing you to walk her into a target. Then beat the target to death, and with your 2nd activation movement, walk her back. This is powerful, however, I am concerned that it risks Honour being pulled back into their lines by defensive opposing players, issolated and beaten to death, or worse farmed for MP. Activation advantage is your friend with Honour and I feel this strategy is too vulnerable to disruption. General Points Tower is very useful in this team, because you are spending a lot of influence on a few attacks, being able to make them really count is key. He also is time efficient and putting the heroic up to protect Chisel from a counter attack can be good. You should be considering, will my opposing team give me the time, to slow the game down and pick apart my formation? OChisel A general point that's worth noting for all masons is that you will find yourself choosing momentous 2 a lot. Therefore, as emphasised a lot above, you must know when you want to reset the scrum, where no-one is engaged, and you can punish them for overcommitting. For this reason, you may find yourself going 2nd despite winning the MP race by choice as this lets you guarantee yourself the last activation. AND, the queen of taking advantage of last activation is OChisel. Why's she so great? Well, she has reach 2, tac 6, and momentous 1 on 1, momentous 2 on 2. Generally, my OChisel spends most of her life with +2 damage, from her heroic and tooled up, so being able to do momentous 3 on 1 success which is very likely on tac 6 is very reliable. As long as you can hit 2 hits four times that's 16 damage. Generally, you will want to heroic, but before you do, ask yourself, what do I want to achieve? Are you trying to get your opponent to 1-2 health, before killing them top of next turn? Are you going for a straight 16 damage take out? Do your maths, it's 2+2! But it may be that the heroic isn't required and you need the MP for the MP race. She is particularly good at the top of 2 take out, because it takes her to arm 3 for the turn, and people will be gunning for her, as she and honour are your premier damage dealers, protect your chisel and she will look after you. Counter attacks: Chisel is reach 2, which is great for beating up on reach 1 people. The issue is people with reach 2 are a bit awkard as 3/1 she is vulnerable to counter attacks. If they're a reach 2 with a single push or dodge, don't be afraid to get Chisel only 1 inch away, so that after the counter attack you're okay. But the advantage of Superior Strategy Chisel is that she can move 12-14 inches, so there's an element of choosing your target carefully. In the Scalpel / Smoke matchup, Chisel has one job to take those ladies out. (note both are reach 1). But in other matchups, she is an opportunistic killer, you don't really care who you take out, you want to take out someone with 14-16 health and reach 1, before resetting. 2 vps are 2 vps, i'd rather take out someone less important and reset 2vps up, than risk going after a more important piece to my opponent and fluffing it due to a powerful reach 2 counter attack. Granite Granite is a defensive piece, her main trick is that if anyone does damage to anyone within 4, she may make a jog. With reach 2, it means that unless she's snared or rough terrain etc, she can get within reach of any reach 2 attacker of anyone within 4 of her. (Vs reach 3 like Thresher or Mallet, you can leave yourself within 3 of everyone to take this into account). Granite then inflicts a -2 crowd out penalty on anyone whose within reach of her. This generally means that with your stylish mason defense of 3/2 they just hit Granite. Remember to heal Granite. She is tough, but 3/2 20 boxes doesn't last that long, she doesn't have tough hide or anything. Generally, you can create enough MP that you should be recovering her in every activation, even if she's only taken 3-4 boxes. Keep her healthy and she will keep everyone else healthy! Influence battery? Granite is interesting in the sense that she can operate perfectly effectively on 0 influence or 3-4. After loading up Honour and Chisel, my general consideration is does Granite need influence. At tac 6, with powerful early momentous KD, push 2 and 2 damage she can dish out the hurt or provide combat control that other pieces don't generally. I generally activate Granite earlier in the turn, even without influence to 'waste' an activation, stalling for a late turn Honour / OChisel. So it would be perfectly normal to go with granite, move her half an inch to stay within 4 of everyone, heal herself 4 and pass. Note: granite is steady, which comes up a lot, as people tend to want to knock her down, instead of taking her out, but this is particularly relevent with... Veteran Harmony Veteran Harmony's main unique selling point is the ability to take any damage from anyone within 4 of her. Do you remember me talking about healing a lot. If someone is wailing on Chisel, does 4 damage to her. Then granite goes in, so they do 4 damage to Granite, then hits her again, to do 4 more damage to Granite, which you redirect to Vet Harmony. Now in each of your activations you can heal 4 to heal all 12 damage for 3MP. Instead of healing Chisel for 3mp 8 health, over 2 activations. This would be Chisel on 2 health, she goes to 6. They have a turn to take her out whilst she's only on 6, then if she's still alive you can take her to 10. With Vet Harmony and Granite dispersing the damage, you can heal all 12 for 3. As long as I'm keeping control of the scrum, it's perfectly normal to accept you're losing the MP race, because you've spent 5-6 mp healing. That's fine, your teams all on full health, and your opponent has no opportunity to do a top of turn super turn with their captain, because between your defensive pieces they're not going to take anyone out. However, there's more: First, if someone is attacking someone out of 4 of Granite, but within 4 of Vet Harmony, Vet Harmony can take the damage, allowing you to trigger Granite's Rock and a Hard Place, which may be enough to get Granite in. (If the attacker is closer to Granite than the person they're hitting for example.) But the second use for this, is that Granite's rock and hard place doesn't specify where she goes. Meaning, if someone comes into the scrum and starts wailing on Granite herself, Granite can redirect the damage to Vet Harmony, triggering Rock and Hard Place allowing Granite to then walk 4 out of reach of the attacker. She will take a parting blow, but generally 2 attacks worth of damage is better than 4. Also, being steady the parting blow on it's own won't knock her down. Even if they've used up the Steady, taking the parting blow and ending their activation knocked down but out of reach of their attacks may be better than taking all the hits. Marked Target: doesn't come up much, as generally you don't want to be sending pieces issolated into the depths of their scrum, but is particularly efficient at removing resilience from low def resilient models. Also, note that Vet Harmony is a piece you activate early in the turn. That sword does work, it's tempting to use her as a piece who hides at the back and avoids all engagement. This is perfectly valid, but it's also worth noting she is tac 5, with momentous 1 on 1 and momentous 2 on 2. With a gang up, she is more than capable of doing momentous 8 (4MP) for 4 inf. If I've left someone on low health, say 1, to take out the next turn, I generally will use Vet Harmony to reliably finish them off for 1-2 influence saving Chisel and Honour for the rest of the turn. Field Medic: every time that she does damage she can heal ALL conditions off someone nearby, this includes KD. So again, can be a powerful top of turn activation to stand some of your pieces up, saving momentum. Tower Tower provides 3 things: 1. He has tooled up, providing 1 extra damage- because your setting up for a powerful end of turn activation this is very powerful. The difference between Chisel doing 12 and 16 is huge. 2. He wants to activate early in the turn in a team of people who want to go near the end. 3. He can stand next to people providing crowd outs. He has 18 health and 3/2. It's worth noting he has a relatively powerful counter attack, tac 5, but push 2 on 1 success. It's nice if it comes up, but if he gets beaten up a bit, you're not that bothered. With the counter attack, you have the option to vs a reach 2 person base to base that you can't push out of reach, you can push them into the rest of your team, so yes they can attack you but they might be getting -3 tac from crowd outs.
  3. Pentagon

    Alchemist - our nemesys?

    If you take her out at the top of turn 2, Smoke won't be coming back until turn 3, use the time you've bought yourself.
  4. Pentagon

    Morts vs Masons

    Are you set on playing Obs in the matchup. Without pointing out the obvious, Scalpel is super super super good, but is specifically very good against Masons. Generally, Obs is better into ball playing teams, whilst Scalpel is useful into beater teams. I am not a Mort player BUT if I was making a team to beat Masons... Scalpel / VHemlock / Graves are the core bit. Vs his team, Scalpel with tooled up will 'relatively' reliably one round Flint/VChisel/Marbles You're looking to avoid an all out and out scrum, you want to give him two hard choices: 1. not engage, and accept that you get another turn of Scalpel moving, killing someone, then second wind backwards then being hemlock midnight offering back to the safety of her team. 2. engaging, and letting you pile in on that poor player with lots of players. If he's running Vchisel, then his superior strategy is potent but a lot worse and without tower, it's no where near as scary as Scalpel. So you may end up in a yoyo game, where he's Superior Strategying Honour into your lines, winning initative and running her backwards, whilst you in turn are yoyo scalpelling him. Keep your team healthy, heal them up. You're going to struggle to out MP masons when they start getting lots of people engaged, but if you can limit who he can engage, say honour is the only one who can get into your team, if you're on more than 12 health, you're already making things tricky for him. Avoid your players getting into one round territory and look to set up one round kills with scalpel. Scalpel makes granite look really silly... If helpful I wrote a small essay on Honour on the Masons thread: I can't comment on Skulk, but I would probably try and let him score, put the ball on bonesaw. Don't score, and keep him away from flint. Then if he wants to chase the ball, he's overcommiting pieces that let you gang up on him. The mason player wants to keep his ladies and men together to protect each other, so force him to spread out so that Scalpel can pick people off. You don't HAVE to counter score, let him score, kill flint, for a 2/4, then win the scrum, to get to 8/4 and finish with bonesaw. The general key to the matchup, is understanding how the masons can engage favorably or unfavorably. Make them pay for overcommitting pieces and look for ways to split them up. (All of which Scalpel does extraordinarily well...)
  5. Pentagon

    Alchemist - our nemesys?

    Honour / Ochisel / Tower / Flint / Vet Harmony / Wrecker Accept that smoke is going to have a turn where she spews **** all over your team. Superior Strategy, tool up Chisel. The threat on SS Chisel is silly and you can protect her from Mercury by keeping her back turn 1 until you move her up before taking her second activation. Chisel with reach 2 circumvents Smokes Unpredictable Move, at which point she's a 4/1. Chisel with Tool Up and Heroic, is doing 4 momentous damage 89% of the time, and 3 damage (on 1 success if you fluff the 2) Smoke has 16 health, so Chisel has a good chance, with set up to one round her, but you're better off taking advantage of Smoke having to get close to you turn 1 to have a powerful turn 1. Let her come in, try to not let Chisel get burned, or if she does try and have a MP to shake.) Hit smoke repeatedly with chisel end of turn 1, trying to leave her on 1-2 health. Activate Chisel top of 2, take Smoke out, then capitalise on them having to play a turn without Smoke. Force them into no win positions, sure they can tackle the ball, but then Vet Harmony has a target to go in and wail on them to clear a load of conditions. Don't expect Vet Harmony to win you the game, she's very good, but the Smoke player will do what they can to control her. If you have the choice of letting them kill Harmony or Chisel, protect Chisel, she is super important because she threatens Smoke. Failing that, Honour can wail on Smoke, using her dodge 2 to avoid the UM. Try to be aggressive as you can, remember Harmony has a momentous 2 on 2 and 1 on 1, Apart from top of 2, where it's super important to win iniative, winning role off isn't that important. Get into the habit of asking yourself ON EVERY ACTIVATION, do I need to be spending MP to heal... If you have a choice of ending turn on 5 mp and everyone having taken 3 damage or having 0 MP and everyone on full health, I NORMALLY prefer the full health. (Unless you're playing around the Knock down, or a key burn and need MP to shake, just plan to let them have first turn and keep everyone healthy. There is only SO much damage they can do first turn, and if your healthy, they struggle to one round people). If you have the MP, counter attack merculy. You don't really have anyone that they can use to farm MP and fire balls, but they'll try and set up a few crowd outs to get a quadruple fire ball. I'd keep wrecker back to battering ram away their set up, to prevent mercury getting his set up. Hope this is helpful, post how you do!
  6. Pentagon

    S4 Chisel (oChisel) lacking flavour and value?

    So there are three odd points here. 1. Rules wise/power level, I agree with above that Ochisel tends to be played with Honour as the superior strategy target, but Vet chisel works super well with the Hammer Prison. I think this is an amazing place to be, and I think a great thing that we are using both versions of a character competitively. I never saw the old chisel played ever and the new one is, so I think that's a net improvement. The fact it's done without killing off her vet version is a bonus. 2. At the playtest event and the release podcast they made the point that they disliked how they were depicting mental health, specifically taking into account the fact that the only 'crazy' characters were women. Whilst, I wouldn't have boycotted steamforge because of it, I applaud them for actively saying its something they want to take into account. As someone who spends their day job working with people suffering from mental health, I don't think glamortising self harm is necessarily the best thing in the world. Also, considering the gaming population is predominantly male, having a bunch of men get together and collectively create a stereo-type of crazy women isn't hugely great either. 3. I also disagree that she lacks flavor, and this is purely because her 'iron fist' play has the same name as Hammer's. It sounds like such a small thing, but when I playtested her and then subsequently played her, she feels like the protege of Hammer which she is. Also considering that OChisel is a 3/1 like Hammer and Vchisel is a 3/2 like Honour, who Vchisel emulates after she became disillusioned with Hammer. Some of her flavor comes from her being a rookie and it definately comes across as such. Atleast to me. No points above are meant to be aggresive or targetting anyone's perspective. I have strong views on some of them, no offence meant.
  7. Pentagon

    Brick's blind spot

    Hello everyone, I've been testing out the implications from Brick's new short arms. Specifically, I believe there is now a blind spot, directly opposite Brick that a 2inch reach attacker can take advantage of. I've tested it a few different ways, but effectively, brick has to be within 1 of VetDecimate, and can only travel 6 inches (represented by the red aura around brick.) The spot 6 inches away whilst within 1 of Vet Decimate (arbitrary attacker) will not clear Harmony's base. The above is based on Brick's front of his base being 4 inches exactly from the front of Harmony's, which if I'm not mistaken ensures he has the 'most' room to maneuver, whilst still being able to counter charge any attacker. (excluding mallet/hearth/thresher) So if i'm not mistaken, Brick's counter charge can be negated by any reach 2 model. Happy to be proven wrong.
  8. Hello Theron shoots someone... doing 2 damage. Vharmony team players to take the 2 damage. Original target is not snared, as they didn't take the damage. Is Harmony snared, does the damage count as being caused by Team Player or Theron? Kindest Regards
  9. Pentagon

    Masons INTO gunlines / Theron

    Hello, My friend has been playing a lot of hunters which is normally a Theron lead. I've been trying a Honour/V-harmony/V-chisel/Lucky team for condition hate - but trying to play around the immense amount of control with the pinned/forest combo etc. is super hard. It's generally a V-Minx/Minerva/Theron/Jaecar core, all of which are brutal in their way, with a lot of control. Or a more gunliney Theron/Egret/Hearne/Cha line up. Should I be playing for 3 goals, or should I be trying to fight through the control and get some TO's. I'm aware that Masons can sort of attempt everything, but not sure what i'm supposed to be doing into all the control, and how do I counter pick for the difference between melee reach theron and shooty shooty theron. Side note: If say Honour is in the Harrier Template and Theron shoots her. He would normally do 3 damage and snare her. If Vharmony redirects all the damage to herself, Honour is no longer hurt so doesn't get snared. Does Vharmony get snared, or does the damage no longer count as from him? Does Vharmony take 2 or 3 assuming she's standing outside of the harrier but original target is within it? Many thanks Pentagon