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  1. 6 points
    We've seen a few discussions about how to resolve the interaction between Second Wind and Cloak of Rats. Situation: Scalpel has previous given Pelage Second Wind and Pelage's activation ends. In what order are Cloak of Rats and Second Wind resolved? Ruling: Both Second Wind and Cloak of Rats trigger at the end of an activation (the beginning of step 3 of the activation sequence). As they both occur at the same timing step they may be resolved in any order the Controlling Player chooses. However, the Enemy models in the Cloak of Rats's aura at the time the Trait is triggered are the ones who will be affected. The Controlling Player is able to resolve the Second Wind Jog first, but when Cloak of Rats is resolved it would be from where Pelage was originally positioned. In this situation you should measure the 2" aura to see which models will be affected, move Pelage, then resolve the Cloak of Rats. In most cases we would suggest resolving the Cloak of Rats first, but in some cases you may not want to e.g. if a model with Overheat or Noxious Death was in the 2" aura and taking 3 damage would cause them to suffer the taken-out condition, you could Jog Pelage away and then resolve Cloak of Rats to avoid Pelage taking the resulting damage. Conversely, should an enemy model engaging Pelage suffer the taken-out condition due to Cloak of Rats damage first, Pelage could Jog away using Second Wind without suffering a parting blow.
  2. 5 points
    Some interesting reading for sure and its eye opening to read peoples perceptions of competative players. As a compatatibe player i rarely practice for events or even play tournament mode unless asked to. I'm maybe getting one gaming night in every week or 2...so < 6 games a month and i switch teams alot when i play. As i believe @Gauntlet described, giving pointers for guildball is very hard as its based on your understanding of the board state, models interactions, threat ranges and influence allocation....and there is alot of room in there for personal preference that suits your own play style. This state changes activation to activation and in order to improve its about understanding spending resources (when to def stance, counter attack), improving your positional play and the hardest thing setting up for the next turn as the turn progresses. The decisions and team i pick wont be the same as another top player, neither will my reasoning....so i can explain options and which i'd choose at that moment but that isnt necessarily going to make someone a better player. You really do need to learn by experience once you have the basics down and improve your own understanding to improve competatively if thats your wish. I often watch my friends play and my understanding of the board state and options differs greatly from theirs...they find it highly amusing as i sit there looking totally perplexed activation to activation at whats unfolding. Team selection (your 10) and counter picks during selection is often overlooked. That one model you picked because you're comfortable with it and always play it could be a weak link thats exploited....playing a net list 6 means your opponent probably has experience playing against them and a counter in mind. I think there are very few bad models in the game and you should work out whats in your 10 and why and when to pick them. I also think the internal balance across guilds is generally very good....i am currently playing Brewers mainly because they are fun and because general consensus on the internet says they are bad....most top players i know would disagree with that statement. It really is how you use a team. The really top players i play against are generally a really nice chilled bunch of guys, clean knowledgable players, and its always a real pleasure to play against them.....i have had very few bad experiences at events over the last few years and then it was mainly due to sloppy play. Because of all of the above alot of peoples decisions/reasons are down to personal preferences and how they use a model so it can be hard teach from there. I would also agree there is a big gap in ability between top players and people new to guildball....but if any of my opponents at an event told me they were new id happily talk them through stuff during and after the game. The enjoyment for me as a competative player comes from an even match of skill not from smashing new players. Im all for a wiki but i think people might learn more from some of the videos that have been linked and comentated on (sfg/wtc/world champs). Having an overview of the whole pitch and not being focused on just your team and trying to understand why people are doing some of the things might up your game. Final point - i've said this before, and i think its kind of been misquoted in this thread. Don't listen to the internet, play what you want to play and get good with it. I think my track record in this area backs this up. Its not the team you play, its the players you pick and your skill in using them that makes the difference.
  3. 3 points
    If I play newer players I tend to do this with guilds/players I don't play that often. I tend to try to play clean and whilst I dial it back to a decent degree I don't tend to give too many freebies, although giving up the odd goal or take out that could be avoided will happen. I will offer some advice, but like Beaston said, it isn't always that easy and to my experience not everyone enjoys getting extensive advice. In general I don't play newer players often because I don't feel like I'm that good at making it an enjoyable experience for the opponent whilst still having fun myself. We have some great people at the LGS, including our pundits, who are far better at that. I do feel GB has a very relaxed and cool competitive ( compatatibe? :D) scene. There is the odd game that might be a bit off but it is more the exception than the rule. Coming from Warmachine, I don't find GB that harsh for newer players. Thanks to the alternating activations newer players can still get some attacks/ goals in even if they only have a very limited knowledge of what they have to do. What might be interesting for newer players is breaking down plays to it's bare minimum. One of the things I loved when I started out was Singled Out "how do you" https://singledout2016.wordpress.com/how-do-you/ .
  4. 2 points
    Mako

    Starting out resources

    This thread will hopefully become a collection of good resources for players starting out or trying to dig deeper into the game in general. Things that aren't guild specific, links to resources and so on. Feel free to post up useful links in here, write articles and answer questions in the main Training Ground, and generally help people find their way into the game (Please note though, if something is guild specific it'll get moved to the relevant guild section as it will be more useful there)
  5. 2 points
    Cyrax

    Cyrax’s Painting log

    Hello all just got into guild ball back in November after I saw the farmers in my local shop. While I haven’t got as many games in as I would like I have been busy painting. so far I have bought farmers, brewers and some Morticians when my lgs was selling off the individual blisters. So far I have been good and haven’t bought anything else (I’m sure that’ll change with the rat catchers around the corner). For today’s post here is the first farmers box and the first half of my brewers teams. And the farmers Sorry about the farmers photos, for some reason no matter what I did they looked a little dull.
  6. 2 points
    Yeah this would be a interesting article for my self to write as well, thanks dude I'll get it done Sunday
  7. 1 point
    Charonis

    Pushing + dodging on boss node

    Yes, another push question, although I've looked long and hard online and so far there have been no questions/answers on this specific question (I hope). Played a game the other night with a couple friends and took on Ornstein and Smough as our final boss (for the record... almost won on first attempt but Ornstein took me out with 5HP remaining.. so close...) Anyways, during the first stage of that fight, we came across Smough's "Trampling Charge" ability, which moves him twice towards his target pushing for 5 damage each time. No problems. Here are the course of events... 1. The assassin already on boss' node and became his target, so as per usual Smough pushes him off at the beginning of his move action for free and causing no damage. 2. Smough turns to face the assassin and then moves onto the assassin's node (his first move) 3. The assassin chose to dodge and remain on the node/arc he was in (as the rules/forums it states that moving to a node on a dodge is optional due to the word "may" in the rules), so currently on the same node as the boss. 4. The assassin paid the 1 stamina cost, rolled, and passed the dodge roll so didn't get pushed. 5. Smough now needs to move + push (with damage) again for his second move. This is where I got stuck. Normally when pushing, you just move onto the character's node, and the character can choose to block/dodge again and rinse/repeat. But in this situation, the character is already on the enemy's node halfway through the enemy's activation/move. (this situation would also occur for any other boss/regular enemy that has push damage on multiple movements in a single activation, although not sure anyone else has a similar move?) What do you do in this situation? Do you just initiate the second movement/push but not actually move anything? i.e. boss + assassin remain in place and assassin has to choose to dodge/block for second movement? Does the boss' activation end immediately? (surely not as that is a potential way to prematurely end a boss' dangerous attacks.. although I know for normal enemy movement that they stop once they reach a target's node, but doesn't make sense in context of a push move) Something else? Am I overthinking this and that's why I couldn't find similar questions? (maybe?) I hope that's clear and enough detail to describe the issue.
  8. 1 point
    masterkdog

    Mako's Expert Procrastination Thread

    Could be a subtle way to add a few extra "custom" health points to some of your players HP totals
  9. 1 point
    Mootaz

    Second Wind and Cloak of Rats

    How does this ruling fit this one? In the above example, two things are triggered from one attack. They are resolved in the game state that exists when they are resolved, not the one when they are triggered. According to the ruling in this thread here, you shouldn't bei able to resolve Chain Grab first to get an additional model into your Scything Blow.
  10. 1 point
    MilitaryCoo

    Second Wind and Cloak of Rats

    Yes, yes she would. What's important is the position of the models at the moment of the trigger; in your example Scalpel is within Pelage's Grim Caress when the "end of activation" trigger happens.
  11. 1 point
    Jotnebane

    How to Play: Honour Masons

    After playing Hammer for a little while I gave the sisters a chance against Blacksmiths today and for the first time I managed to get Superior Strategy give me an advantage and I managed to get people engaged with Marbles so that Honour could come in and get the bonus from Assist. Still a close game, won 12-10, but getting all the little things to work really felt good. Used Superior Strategy on Mallet for extra threat range and won first turn momentum race Used Marbles countercharge to get him engaged so Honour could get bonus from Assist. Used Superior Strategy for extra activation so I could get the ball with Harmony after scoring and kicking it back into play for me. Used Family to great effect when beating up Sledge and Iron. I'll definitely work on my skills with the sisters and I understand why they in the hands of a skilled player can be viewed as better than Hammer. I fell that there is no way to take them without Brick and Marbles, and Mallet is also a sure pick for me which leaves only one flex spot. Flint is good for scoring, but I feel he brings to little to the team apart from that, Tower and Lucky can both score and bring more tools to the table.
  12. 1 point
    Terminus

    Mulligans during play.

    Short of competitive tournament play, I let my opponents do all the take-backsies they want. Casual game, casual players. And because a lot of my local opponents are newer to the game, I try and point out as many of their options as possible to inform their choices before they commit to a move in the first place. Of course, I'm much harder on myself. If I screw up or make a mistake, I tend to force myself to accept the consequences because otherwise, I'll never learn. - Terminus -
  13. 1 point
    If you're looking for a bit more of a high level play bent than tng but with rolling commentary about the why and plan of moves may I suggest having a look at YouTube for Run the Length from Vince of STW fame and suggest searching for other Guildball channels where you might find some gold. Or more garbage ones like mine https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaK5nh-vD9tJIO4mJvM_a-A.
  14. 1 point
    CivilizedStorm

    Starting out resources

    Going to give a shoutout to @the_aY for his One-Page Reference Sheet. I've found it immensely useful for players both new and old! Although it's the free one's that Steamforged provides, having it on one sheet i a godsend!
  15. 1 point
    I think the focus on averages misses something I find really important about new Ox: the 3dmg Butchery on 6 hits. This has come down a column and becomes quite achievable on the charge and under some of the defensive debufs butchers can put out. I went in on hearth during his legendary turn and put one out with each hit! That's the biggest impact of the changes I've found. Cheerio, Ben
  16. 1 point
    Mako

    Cyrax’s Painting log

    They look good, nicely done! If you’re having problems with photos looking washed out and dull, could be worth switching your background for a mid grey one - it really helps cameras pick out the colour and light better
  17. 1 point
    Mako

    Mako's Expert Procrastination Thread

    My latest distraction involved photoshop, my 3d printer, a circle cutter, some spray glue, mounting card and various drill bits... They're still only the test batch, but they're getting better with every one I make
  18. 1 point
    Azreal13

    PVC Fishers and Butchers

    It honestly feels to me like SFG didn't want this to succeed. On the less popular platform (irrespective of backer expectations, these are easily managed with clear communication,) with two options which are competing for money, at least for a percentage of the target audience, at a low ebb time of year for many financially, and with zero promotion that I've seen outside of their own ecosystem. I've put my money where my mouth is, I really like the Fish, don't own them and have been interested in getting them since I first got into the game, and responded as such from the first surveys, so I really would like to see a last minute uptake, but it really doesn't look likely...
  19. 1 point
    Joel

    Clocked out Against Farmers

    I’ve had just one game against farmers - I took: shark, salt, angel, Sakana, greyscales and Hag i was 8-3 up when time stopped play (not on clock, but vassal froze up and stopped working for my opponent). Goals from greyscales and shark with both in turn 2 as I kicked instead it received. His 3 came from a takeout of the Hag with Windle. hag was amazing though - she was knocked down by grange and also engaged by Windle and managed to dodge out, stand up, legendary them both aside to make a gap, jog through the gap to get the ball and pass it to shark to set him up for the second goal - for a grand total of 1 inf. I was in a position with shark and greyscales to threaten a 3rd goal too when we had to stop.
  20. 1 point
    Cu3scott

    CaptainCon Guild Ball

    Wooooo! Captain Con Brewer's Cup Pockets!!! The Dog!!! Wooooooo!
  21. 1 point
    I feel that Farris is still viable without Bolt as she brings a key ability to success with the 3-0 game which is the Character Play "Quick Foot", which is also not OPT. She also has an excellent movement stat, in itself, which allows her to play a good midfield enforcer roll with just 1 MOM; if required through use of the "Impact" trait. That combined with her 2" melee and "Sentinel" make her a good all round support piece for the other apprentices. Cinder I feel is better at releasing up the deadball game and if tooled up potentially has a greater goal threat than Bolt. She has a base 6"/8" move (which could also be bolstered with Quick Foot) and a not too miserly 3/8" kick stat. This combined with Hearths bolstering abilities makes her a very viable goal threat, who can max out on 4 influence if required. You then have 4 viable goal threats in Ferrite, Iron, Alloy and Cinder the latter being able to clear up better on a dead ball game and get the rest of the team moving. With Hearth and Farris providing a strong supporting role.
  22. 1 point
    Jam Sandwich

    PVC Fishers and Butchers

    I'm gutted that these campaigns seem destined to fail. I love the PVC teams, I have a superglue sensitivity so assembly of metal minis is a real problem and it's pot luck scouring ebay for assembled / painted teams. I got a friend hooked on playing GB by carefully buying and assembling Fish, Masons, and Butchers out of Lego! 80k per campaign is pretty high given it's post-Xmas, there's been little fanfare, and the competition from Godtear. I'd absolutely love to have two 12-man teams of two of our favourite guilds but it really doesn't look like it's going to happen, and sadly from the blog posts it seems like SFG will take that as outright proof that the community isn't interested enough
  23. 1 point
    Biff'd

    PVC Fishers and Butchers

    This is my problem as well. They are putting all of the risk and burden on their existing player base, and not offering enough incentive to back the projects. They should have only launched one guild and offered at least one exclusive model, even if they charged full retail price for the team. Exclusive model > discount, especially when the "discount" is only to down to the price point we are already used to paying for. It also doesn't help that neither Fish or Butchers have announced minor guilds yet, so existing players don't have an obvious reason to buy them. Oh, well. At least we'll get all new releases in PVC going forward.
  24. 1 point
    Harrow was engaged by vetGraves and she put Singled Out on him. He knew Scalpel would kill him for 2 points and then score a goal. He tried to walk away and completely forgot her damage, so she rolled her parting blow and did an additional 6 damage to the... I don't know, 15 or so she did to him after applying Singled Out. She's a beast against Male models. MVP means most valuable player. Edit: Oh also he chose Snared at the end of the activation, though there wasn't really a good choice for him at this point.
  25. 1 point
    ForestRambo

    How do i play Midas well?

    Engineers also struggle to hit lots of DEF5. Midas, Naja, Vitriol and Mist can really limit what a character play heavy team can do.
  26. 1 point
    Since the S3 changes to Obulus, which were required but in my opinion are a complete overshoot, I highly prioritize Scalpel. Her legendary helps a lot, she can redistribute Influence (which unfortunately didn't worko on tater, but meh, Def 5), her Heroic gives nice repositioning options really good against counterchargers in my experience, or to just get a ball carrier further up the pitch and out of range of enemy models. Her wake the dead is actually useful when you play Cosset and Pelage, because I have never had a use for it. Her damage is good and a momentous pus dodge on 3 is in my opinion one of the better results Morticians have alltogether. Obulus' Playbook is just useless in my opinion, at least with the TAC5. Though I guess Pelages easy Singled Out may actually equalize that. Tooled up from Graves, Pelage Singles Out and Obulus goes ham. A bit boring, and I really love Scalpels run and gun playstyle, but eh. Obulus also has confidence. Could be interesting on Pelage. I don't really care that much about Puppetmaster to be honest. It's incredibly expensive and I prefer to still do things with my Inf besides spending 5 just to get the ball and pass it. Lure is a big thing, that's also why I didn't use Obulus. It did its job. Pelage and Skulk change a lot about how their Roster works and it almost offsets vetGraves lack of Character Traits. Scalpel is really good at supporting the team offensively AND defensively and gives speed. I really want to use Bonesaw at some point because Pelage is another models with a kick of 3/6 which so far has been pretty sparse in the Morts, and Scalpel, Pelage and Graves or vetGraves deliver 3/6 so Football Dervish is much more relevant.
  27. 1 point
    If you’re new to GB they aren’t a problem, as just starting out this game has a learning curve. The Farmers have eccentricities that mean you need some experience for them to shine. If they are the team that interests you most you should play them and ignore all the people whining about how broken they are. That being said they are also in line for a balance change so I suspect that they won’t even be overpowered for too much longer
  28. 1 point
    I think this is actually one of the issues with guild ball, in a weird way. It's very easy to give advice to someone in MTG, for example, because a lot of the game is in deckbuilding, and that's done in downtime. You can give someone your list and ask 'how can I make this better' and get a concrete response of choices to make, replacements and upgrades to consider. In guild ball, almost every 'bad at the game' mistake is something that happens on the pitch, rather than off it. You can give someone an optimal lineup and a 'counter' matchup and they will likely still lose to a player with a reasonable amount more experience than them. This means that coaching people at GB is hard. The only really good way of doing so is to play a lot of games and talk them through things. Giving advice on choices to make in-game is nice, but a lot of the time the common things you need to learn (threat ranges, expected damage outputs, when to engage, how to avoid wasting influence, when the ball is safe and when it isn't) are not very easily learned and they are not questions with hard and fast rules which can be used to answer them. GB is a game which involves a lot of decisions all the time. Significantly more than a card game, at least. Usually in MTG, in a game I might make a few pregame decisions (mulligan choices) and then what land to play, what of my 2-3 options on what to do with mana, and that's about it. Over an 8 turn (so quite long) game I might make 25 or so 'decisions' where I have an opportunity to misplay in total. In deck construction, I have 75 decisions to make, and lots of options in all of them, but deck construction decisions are very easy to get advice and input on. In guild ball, I only have 11 pregame decisions to make (guild choice, roster choice) from a relatively small number of options, but then just the draft (6), kick/receive, positioning in deployment (6), kicker if relevant, how to position kicker, where to place the ball, how to distribute each point of influence, who to activate each activation (6), where to go with each model (6), how to spend each point of influence (12)... I make more decisions in just the first turn of a GB game than I do in an entire game of Magic. The number of opportunities for a new player to mess up in GB are extensive - there are a lot of choices to be made and they are usually not ones that can be easily advised on, because they are made ingame, and depends heavily on what the opponent is doing / the terrain / what team you are against and so on. They also aren't ones where it is easy to statistically analyse the correct answer, either. Nobody has stats for 'games where Shark gets taken out in exchange for a turn one goal, Fish win 54.2% of the time' or whatever. That means that a lot of the time, the right answer to all of these decisions is pretty much based on gut feeling rather than actual numbers.
  29. 1 point
    Tre

    Newbie help please

    Typically Grange is more of a support captain, who relies on the rest if the team to do a bunch of work. Thresher is more of a do it all captain by contrast, who likes support from his team, to do most of the work himself. As a result from this players like Bushel, Windle, and Fallow will only be brought by Captain Grange. Bushel is a serious goal threat when you use her Im open character play. She passes the ball to someone (usually someone with a 3 die kick stat which gets buffed to a 4 die with grange’s passive trait) then dodges 4 inches, bushel uses im open to get the ball passed back for her to dodge 4 more inches, walk up 6 inches and kick an 8 inch goal for a 22 inch goal threat. Windle is a damage dealer, but can be easy for the opponent to shut down. If you can get him rolling he is a machine. Fallow is absolutely amazing. She can be a deniel piece by using between a rock and a... to jog into melee to help teammates. Generally she activates close to the end of the turn to have a high tac, and go deal a tonne of damage. When allocating to fallow she likes 0,1, or 3 influence depending if she is near harvest markers or not going to be doing anything that turn, but the ability to get influence by removing the harvest markers makes her flexible where if she had zero influence she still can get 4 influence during her activation. Tater, Milstone, Jackstraw, and Harrow are players that work great with both captains. Tater IMO is the guild defining farmer. I take him in every lineup I play. He can deal a lot of damage, he has a great threat range with 2 inch melee and has counter charge next to harvest markers which makes him a nightmare to play against. Tater likes to charge into groups of 1 inch melee models to get scything charge on multiple models, then use mow dow to put out a lot of knockdown conditions. Millstone is very versatile. She can put out decent damage, and has bring a lot of support abilities with her character plays and being able to take conditions for the team. With grange she is a melee monster, with thresher she makes him ludicrously difficult to counter. To top it all of she brings 3 influence for the team and produces a free harvest marker, while not using manh influence on a turn by turn basis, which all the reapers like. Jackstraw is a footballer, that doesn’t look like he is a footballer on paper. The ability to teleport to harvest markers makes him deceptively mobile, with a long kick stat gives him weird angles to score goals. The teleport is also good for getting him out of bad spots to deny the opponent easy VPs, or can be used to get him into an advantageous position, crowding out key models. Crop dusting is the best way to put harvest markers right where you need them, like for Thresher to use don’t fear the... with. Harrow is a good support piece and battery. He sits back and keeps your team healthy, puts out a harvest marker if he is near the captain, and brings tooled up to buff damage. Like most farmers he has 2 inch melee which is my favourite rule in the game for models to have. Ploughman is the best player, that i never have a spot for. He is an incredible solid player and does neat things. Sadly whenever im picking a 6 man lineup he just doesn’t make the cut because there are so many great Farmers players that do what im looking for with that spot in the line up better. People will have better advice on him because i havent gotten him on the pitch too much to tell what role he does best. Mascot choices is mostly personal preference. Buckwheat is all offence, while peck brings a less potent offence for some support abilities. The donkey is a great goal threat with the help of harvest markers, and can contribute some damage and knockdowns. Peck has a heroic, a situational one, but when you use it, it is powerful. Cocky changes some match ups by being able to ignore a condition, which combos well with millstone and players you want to counter attack with. Momentous 1 on one in pecks playbook makes generating momentum if it charges via sic em or because you generated a lot of influence from harvest markers, and be a serious threat if you combine it with things like threshers legendary play, tooled up, honest labour, and all the crowd outs you can get with farmers.
  30. 1 point
    I think we need some better stickies or wikis on beginner players in GB. GB is not ‘that’ simple to get straight. Some things like ‘why does the game reward goals with so much stuff - isn’t that win more?’ are very good questions that new players ask. They also initially think goal scoring/beat down teams are too good and I’m also asked about how some teams always seem to get to go first. These FAQs should really get not only a sticky but perhaps also their own forum so players have somewhere to go for more general training rather than having to trapse through forums. As to balance or NPEs, there are a few issues at the moment in my opionion (Ballista gunline sucks all joy from the game regardless of whether it’s balanced for example) but most of the old guilds are in a great place right now. I would take any of the original guilds into a tournament with a feeling of having a good chance. Farmers (and Blacksmiths the first time you play them because they look shiny before you learn the cracks) will bust people’s balls. I believe fundamentally their design is ‘off’ (immunity to conditions, good defence and extra hit boxes, etc) but they will get looked at. if balance for new players is a worry I would very strongly advise them that the design team are good at addressing issues. So the best way to tackle all this (especially if you don’t have a local pundit to help) is look at forums here and ask questions. But I really think we need a better resource. And yep, try some variants or look at a different Guild to mix it up - even just swap guilds. Hunters vs Farmers is pretty even to me even without Corsair. Shark can lead but Snipe doesn’t really hurt them with high kick stats and Fish 2” melee hurts The mainly 1” melee Hunters. So it’s an interesting one. Also GB does reward more play - you get better and able to counter enemy moves.
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