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Silversmith

Snapping to kickoff team in formation

This question came up in the Formation feedback thread.  If the kicking team has a model within 1" of the ball after resolving scatter can they snap the ball?  Flow up question: If Colossus is on the center line and the kickoff scatters within 2" of him and 1" of another model would they have to roll off for the ball.

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This indicates a player in possession on the kicker's side of the pitch counts as a failed kick. There's a corner case where if the non-kicker that snaps could get on the opponent's side of the pitch it'd be legal, but I don't think there's a way to do that anywhere in the rules.

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I understand your point but I believe that references a pass to one of the kicker's teammates.  It doesn't really (by my reading, and I've been wrong before) concern itself with a kick where the scatter takes the ball across the halfway line but within the snap to range of one of the kicker's teammates. The kick ended in a legal placement but was snapped after scatter by the player.  Same as if it snaps after a goal kick.  That ruling may, however, inform the answer.  Regardless I think making the rule for that format that the kickoff can't be snapped by the kicking team before the first turn might solve the issue.

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The kicker may not snap the ball after resolving the kick-off (ref. page 10 of the s3 rulebook).

This still applies to the new deployment rules, which don't reword the actual kick-off, just state (point i) that the kicker performs the kick-off action.

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44 minutes ago, Megaladon said:

The kicker may not snap the ball after resolving the kick-off (ref. page 10 of the s3 rulebook).

This still applies to the new deployment rules, which don't reword the actual kick-off, just state (point i) that the kicker performs the kick-off action.

That isn't the question here... The question is: Can the Kicking Team snap the ball?

The kicking player can't snap the ball in either situation.

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4 hours ago, ningu said:

That isn't the question here... The question is: Can the Kicking Team snap the ball?

The kicking player can't snap the ball in either situation.

Whoops, misread the post, sorry.

I think Siberys is correct. The rules specify the receiver gets the ball if it ends in the kickers side of the pitch "after resolving" the kick-off, which would include any snap-to (since this happens immediately after ball placement). It's based on the final position of the ball, rather than where it lands and the link he posted indicates that in the kicking players possession on her side of the pitch counts as a failed kick.

If he wanted to, Colossus could roll of to snap the ball in the situation described in the first post as per this ruling: 

 

 

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Correct.  The ball must be completely within the receiver's half of the pitch after resolving the kick off, which includes snapping and any other movement (least disturbance etc).

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Does this mean that if a receiving model on the middle line snaps or intercepts the ball, the receiving player can give it to any of his players?

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1 hour ago, MechMage said:

Does this mean that if a receiving model on the middle line snaps or intercepts the ball, the receiving player can give it to any of his players?

I don't think so.  If the receiving player intercepts the ball at the center line it is, by definition on the receiver's side of the pitch.

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My argument from the other thread is that the center line is in both sides of the pitch (based on both teams having to deploy b2b and completely within their own half) and therefore the ball is not completely within the opponent's side.

 

I would suggest that a kick-off simply not be interceptable in this format, but that probably exceeds the scope of this question thread.

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2 hours ago, missing1leg said:

My argument from the other thread is that the center line is in both sides of the pitch (based on both teams having to deploy b2b and completely within their own half) and therefore the ball is not completely within the opponent's side.

 

I would suggest that a kick-off simply not be interceptable in this format, but that probably exceeds the scope of this question thread.

If the model is completely within their own half when deployed, how it is not when snapping? I'd say that snapping with a player on the center line is ok for the receiving team.

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I think (I could be wrong here) that the problem stems from the definition of touching something being within it - such as the whole Unpredictable movement thing, where a 2" dodge from base contact is still within 2".

The model has to be within 18" of its own back edge but touching the halfway line, which means it is within the other half by that same definition - even though it's also completely within its own half. By touching that centre line, the model manages to be within one half and completely within the other half!

Ow, my head :D

 

 

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A player can still be 17.9 inches from the end, and if the ball land 18.9 inches, its still going to have landed in the receiver's half, and be within snap to range. 

I think the whole spirit of the kick off is that the receiving team starts the game with possession of the ball, or at least a decent chance of getting it. It's just this new format  that has this wrinkle that needs to be addressed if it's going to be implemented. Something that couldn't gave come up before under the old format

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Due to the way "within" works, it is possible for a model to be completely within Area A and also within Area B.

 

A receiving model deployed touching the center line is completely within their team's half of the pitch, so when snapping the ball they satisfy the requirements of the kick off.

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2 hours ago, MilitaryCoo said:

Due to the way "within" works, it is possible for a model to be completely within Area A and also within Area B.

 

A receiving model deployed touching the center line is completely within their team's half of the pitch, so when snapping the ball they satisfy the requirements of the kick off.

Sorry to belabour the point, but i think it's important to be entirely clear and I'm not sure what you mean by satisfying the requirements of the kick off.

According to page 10 of the rulebook, if the ball ends within the kickers side of the pitch, then it can be given to any player on the receiver's side. It being completely within the receiver's side is irrelevant to this rule.

As per your above ruling (and others, i.e. on returning to the pitch) a receiving model on the half way line who snaps the ball is within the kickers side of the pitch, and therefore the ball can be given to any player on the receiver's team.

Is this correct?

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16 hours ago, Megaladon said:

Sorry to belabour the point, but i think it's important to be entirely clear and I'm not sure what you mean by satisfying the requirements of the kick off.

According to page 10 of the rulebook, if the ball ends within the kickers side of the pitch, then it can be given to any player on the receiver's side. It being completely within the receiver's side is irrelevant to this rule.

As per your above ruling (and others, i.e. on returning to the pitch) a receiving model on the half way line who snaps the ball is within the kickers side of the pitch, and therefore the ball can be given to any player on the receiver's team.

Is this correct?

No. We will look at the wordings, but this interpretation is not correct. 

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