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RTOAHB

Sacrificing enjoyment of the game for a statistic?

Hey all. A few months back I set my goal to get my self into the top 16 rankings for the UK with the ultimate goal to qualify for the UK masters. As a bit of background, I've played table top gaming for around 12 years and played games like warmachine and 40k competitively for the last 5-6 years. I feel like I have the knowledge, mechanical skill etc etc to make it and recently I've been playing more and more practice games and I'm lining up the events as much as I can. 

I have found something, since setting my self this goal however, I am not enjoying games nearly as much. Practice games less so, but tournaments game much more so. I find myself almost turning into a different person when competing. As a rule of thumb I think I am a laid back guy, but I know recently in games I haven't been so laid back. I don't want to be like that and I think this comes from overly worrying about results, every bad dice roll or mistake seems to frustrate me. One thing I do know, the only reason I play tabletop games is to hang out with like minded people and roll some dice.

I've found that given my self this goal and overly pushing my self to get good results has made me ONLY fixate on the result of the game. Not on the enjoyable experience, the banter between players and the big oohhhhh ahhhh moments we all enjoy. 

I'm not saying people can't push them self as hard as they can and still enjoy it, but I have discovered by doing so my self it draws away from the very core reasons I play the game. So, for me it's back to mid table obscurity, all the trash talk I can muster and hopefully a lot more enjoyable experience of the games I play going forward. 

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To be honest I'm of the opinion that a cutthroat mindset doesn't particularly help a player win tournaments anyway. It's not like your dice are going to get better the more you care about them, and most of the time if you concern yourself too much with the game's result you will end up distracting yourself from the actual board.

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6 minutes ago, Gauntlet said:

To be honest I'm of the opinion that a cutthroat mindset doesn't particularly help a player win tournaments anyway. It's not like your dice are going to get better the more you care about them, and most of the time if you concern yourself too much with the game's result you will end up distracting yourself from the actual board.

Not so much just dice though, I feel frustrated and annoyed if I lose game. If I make a mistake it really tilts my mindset, as well as dice as my ultimate goal is only about winning. I don't want that to be the case, my ultimate goal is to enjoy games and meet new people. Winning should always be a secondary bonus. 

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1 minute ago, RTOAHB said:

Not so much just dice though, I feel frustrated and annoyed if I lose game. If I make a mistake it really tilts my mindset, as well as dice as my ultimate goal is only about winning. I don't want that to be the case, my ultimate goal is to enjoy games and meet new people. Winning should always be a secondary bonus. 

Sure, but I don't think whether or not winning is your #1 priority makes much difference in terms of how much you actually win games in the end. Just because you don't want to be as stressed about the game doesn't mean you magically won't do well at tournaments any more.

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9 minutes ago, Gauntlet said:

Sure, but I don't think whether or not winning is your #1 priority makes much difference in terms of how much you actually win games in the end. Just because you don't want to be as stressed about the game doesn't mean you magically won't do well at tournaments any more.

I appreciate your statement, but I'd rather head to a tournament expecting to go 2-2, rather then head to a tournament saying anything less then a 4-0 is a waste you know? 

Might just be my own mindset. 

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1 minute ago, RTOAHB said:

I appreciate your statement, but I'd rather head to a tournament expecting to go 2-2, rather then head to a tournament saying anything less then a 4-0 is a waste you know? 

Might just be my own mindset. 

@Gauntlet is agreeing with you. Just because you expect to get go 2-2 doesn't / shouldn't sacrifice your ability to win games score 4-0.

 

Personally, I find that I play Guild Ball tournaments for the enjoyment of the game and don't really care that much about the result. Sure it's nice to win, but to me, I'm not that bothered about a lose. The games always seem to have something fun to talk about afterwards.

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No i won't be actively trying to play worse. Just my mindset going into a event will be much more towards the social side of the game. Throw some banter, meet new people and share some good laughs as opposed to winning is the main priority. 

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Do whatchu want man! Everybody gets enjoyment out of things in different ways and there's no shame in doing something—especially a hobby—in a way that's more fun for you but not as serious as possible. Ain't nobody "going pro" in a miniatures game and making this their career or going down in the history books. Some people definitely enjoy* pushing themselves hard to get better at a thing, but if you aren't enjoying that, why bother? Play the Guild Ball that you like best, I think.

*It's hard to call this "enjoyment" exactly, cause a lot of players still get mad at themselves and have a frustrating experience when they lose a game, but then they are fulfilled in some way by the struggle to succeed. But it's shorthanded to enjoyment and that's pretty reasonable. "get-something-from-ness."

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The way I look at it, the only wrong kind of fun is when you're ruining someone's time to get it (deliberately, I mean).

In this case, you were spoiling your own fun so it makes total sense to change your goals.

Maybe you're just not cut out to be a ruthless merciless tournament demon :D

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55 minutes ago, Mako said:

Maybe you're just not cut out to be a ruthless merciless tournament demon

We can't all be like the Chicago guys :ph34r:

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16 minutes ago, TehMik said:

We can't all be like the Chicago guys :ph34r:

I'm going to go ahead and point out that the previous comment was a Chicago guy saying it was cool to just sit back and be social.

But yeah, most of us in Chicago are ruthless tournament demons. But if you catch us outside of the game, we're usually pretty cool people to socialize with.

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"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women."

 - every Chicago player ever

;)

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Like any game, play to have fun. If the enjoyment wanes you take a look at why... and adjust accordingly. It's not unlike life... your goals change constantly though your journey. It seems you have taken steps to recapture what you enjoy most about the game... and that keeps you playing longer.... and that is a good thing for the community and the game.

I know, I know... sounds like a casual gamer reply... but you really can strive for excellence without beating yourself up when you aren't perfect. There is always someone better than you... you just try to minimize the amount of time that that person is you, yourself.

I wish for you many more hours of friendship, frivolity, and frosty adult beverages!!! Game On!

Edited by Malritch
lousy spelling

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1 hour ago, Ranthoron said:

I'm going to go ahead and point out that the previous comment was a Chicago guy saying it was cool to just sit back and be social.

Oh, I know. Just playing along with the stereotype (for lack of a better word) that's come up around the Chicago folks. Was able to chat very, very briefly with the contingent that made it down to the DC area for the Spring Fling and first impressions were that everyone who made the trip were pretty cool folks.

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1 hour ago, Ruffy said:

"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women."

 - every Chicago player ever

;)

Except @VanV. He has no idea what you're talking about.

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And if you do decide to re-focus on the competitive side of things, I think a healthy way to go about it is to focus on details of your own play performance rather than the game results.  Games like this, with built-in variance, can very well be lost even if you played 'better' between the two of you.  Results are an easy focus, as winning feels great and losing can be frustrating, but if the attitude is "I'm going to play my absolute best and be a better player after this event than before it" rather than "if I lose, I've failed", games can be more rewarding win or lose.  Results will come on their own.  Easier said than done sometimes, though.

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2 minutes ago, Arkin said:

And if you do decide to re-focus on the competitive side of things, I think a healthy way to go about it is to focus on details of your own play performance rather than the game results.  Games like this, with built-in variance, can very well be lost even if you played 'better' between the two of you.  Results are an easy focus, as winning feels great and losing can be frustrating, but if the attitude is "I'm going to play my absolute best and be a better player after this event than before it" rather than "if I lose, I've failed", games can be more rewarding win or lose.  Results will come on their own.  Easier said than done sometimes, though.

That's generally good advice even if you aren't looking to be competitive.

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Losing, and more specifically understanding why you lost, is the most important part of getting better. Rather than thinking "oh man I lost round 1 guess I'm out of it" think about the fact that you get to free roll 3 rounds, maybe try some new things, etc. It's never a waste of time. You've already set the time aside to play in the event, so unless you get stuck with a bye you're guaranteed at least X rounds of practice.

I used to be the worst sport and get really mad/frustrated, and the key was to just step back and give some more perspective to what each game accomplishes in your overall plan, which is ultimately getting better and climbing the ranks.

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We have a mantra at my work: "Everyone has the right to fail with dignity, regardless of how unrealistic their goals and expectations may be."  :-)

In a highly competitive environment, there are those who love it and there are those who will have nothing of it... However, I've found that both can, and often do, enjoy 'the game' and can be quite good at what they do. IMO, It's best to play how you like playing and continue enjoying the game.  

 

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On a brighter note, just noticed I've bumped up to ranked 47th in the world. Could be worse I guess. If I manage to get higher? Awesome, but for now it's going to be about bringing the most banter I can to a game.

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On 6/30/2017 at 5:25 AM, RTOAHB said:

Hey all. A few months back I set my goal to get my self into the top 16 rankings for the UK with the ultimate goal to qualify for the UK masters. As a bit of background, I've played table top gaming for around 12 years and played games like warmachine and 40k competitively for the last 5-6 years. I feel like I have the knowledge, mechanical skill etc etc to make it and recently I've been playing more and more practice games and I'm lining up the events as much as I can. 

I have found something, since setting my self this goal however, I am not enjoying games nearly as much. Practice games less so, but tournaments game much more so. I find myself almost turning into a different person when competing. As a rule of thumb I think I am a laid back guy, but I know recently in games I haven't been so laid back. I don't want to be like that and I think this comes from overly worrying about results, every bad dice roll or mistake seems to frustrate me. One thing I do know, the only reason I play tabletop games is to hang out with like minded people and roll some dice.

I've found that given my self this goal and overly pushing my self to get good results has made me ONLY fixate on the result of the game. Not on the enjoyable experience, the banter between players and the big oohhhhh ahhhh moments we all enjoy. 

I'm not saying people can't push them self as hard as they can and still enjoy it, but I have discovered by doing so my self it draws away from the very core reasons I play the game. So, for me it's back to mid table obscurity, all the trash talk I can muster and hopefully a lot more enjoyable experience of the games I play going forward. 

I won't speak for you but merely myself. Enjoyment is my number one priority. I want to win every game and I try to win every game, but having fun is more important to me when I'm gaming. This is my hobby. If I'm not having fun, why am I bothering? If I want to do something not fun, I'll go to work and at least get more money for it. Playing games like Guildball is what I do for fun and if I'm not having fun, what is the point? Yes, I could be ranked higher, but if I don't enjoy it, what have I gained? I encourage you to do what is best for you, but that is my perspective. I would rather lose and have fun, than win and not enjoy it.

 

William

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On 6/30/2017 at 9:52 AM, Ranthoron said:

I'm going to go ahead and point out that the previous comment was a Chicago guy saying it was cool to just sit back and be social.

But yeah, most of us in Chicago are ruthless tournament demons. But if you catch us outside of the game, we're usually pretty cool people to socialize with.

I also don't mind being both ruthless and my opponent being ruthless. That can make for a fun game itself. For me the play is the thing. If I play a competitive game against a ruthless opponent and have fun doing so, I've had a good game, whether I won or lost. I started out playing Battletech back in the 80's against a guy who would whip me weekly. After the games, we would talk about the outcomes and situations and in the end, i became a much better player. That guy that used me as his regular whipping boy is also a guy that I am proud to call a friend as well as an opponent. Every game we played, I expected no less than his best and got it. I rarely beat him, but always enjoyed playing him. I play to beat my opponent in every game I play. I play dirty but by the rules and expect no less from my opponent. If you've figured out a legal trick or strategy to use against me, bring it on. I appreciate competitive play. Always give your opponent 100%. They deserve no less.

 

William

 

Edited by Gardensnake
grammer

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Fix your 'why' and your results will follow.

Your 'why' for playing this game is currently out of alignment with your soul.

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