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Silversmith

How do you deal with all the low def pieces?

Our forum has been quiet too long.  So I'll ask a question I have been working on a while.

Engineers have quite a few pieces with low def (3+/1 or less).  Some are quite popular. Ballista, Colossus, Ratchet, Locus, Harry.  Of these Ratchet is probably the squishiest. My question is, how do you keep them alive or from being farmed for momentum?

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Personally I don't worry about momentum farming.  Most players can turn 1 influence into 1 momentum fairly reliably.  If they aren't also earning VPs with that influence, it's not much of a problem and there isn't much that can be done able it.  For example, Sakana can turn 1 influence into 1 momentum by hitting his momentous dodge on 1, even against a 5+/0 player, but unless he's dodging towards your goal and either has the ball or is about to become a snapshot threat, the dodging isn't bring the fish closer to winning.  In that regard, Ballista's and Colossus's low defenses are not a liability because momentum can be farmed just as easily off a high defense model and their Tough Hide makes attacking them for take outs too inefficient for anyone but Butchers Brewers or Union.  It only becomes a problem when an extremely low defense causes a model to give up more than one momentum per influence invested.  This is a big part of Stave's unpopularity.  I don't have any practical advise for using Locus, but keep Ratchet out of the scrum if possible and Harry relies on his powerful counter attacks to avoid being clobbered.  Even if he's not Crazy it's often worth it to counter attack a 4+/1 or 5+/0 with a full stack of influence on the possibility of negating the stack.

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In my opinion, as a guild, we're VERY well-off in terms of making "farming" an unattractive strategy. In general it's just too costly and losing the race to win Initiative isn't actually all that crippling with Home Crowd. However, knowing that some low-DEF models may be farmed, almost regardless of what I do, I try to set a trap.

Colossus has relatively easy-access to :KD: and has 2" reach. So, assuming I'm enjoying Home Crowd, a first-activation moving into Colossus might cost my opponent a lot of momentum-potential if they aren't able to :KD: Colossus on the charge. Colossus also still enjoys Tough Hide and (the oft-forgotten...) Stoic, decent passive defensive tech that can limit an opponent's ability to effectively generate momentum and/or inflict damage.

With Harry, I'm typically counter attacking and pushing the player into a more advantageous-for-me position, possibly out of melee, invalidating the rest of the INF assigned to that player. Ballista's Minefield is an obvious trap and no-go-zone for those high-DEF/low-HP models, unless the opponent wants to yield nearly an activation's worth of DMG (4 or 5 boxes worth). Tough Hide and 18 HP make him very resilient and will set him up nicely for the take-out in the subsequent activation.

Ratchet really is the squishiest, and everyone knows how much utility he gives to the team, making him Public Enemy Number 1. I usually keep him behind the lines, handing out Fixer and Overclocked while dropping a bomb on or near an opposing player, but sooner or later, he'll get tagged by a beater. The trap here is Compound (who I play often b/c Alchemists are everywhere!), who can play spoiler to an attempt to farm momentum with a well-placed :>:, :>>: or even :KD:.

I've never played with Locus, but I imagine that trying to farm from him would be a miserable experience.

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On 7/11/2017 at 0:14 PM, Tankard said:

...The trap here is Compound (who I play often b/c Alchemists are everywhere!), who can play spoiler to an attempt to farm momentum with a well-placed :>:, :>>: or even :KD:....

I have a slightly off topic question for you.  Why do you like Compound into Alchemists?

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2 hours ago, Cleavelander said:

I have a slightly off topic question for you.  Why do you like Compound into Alchemists?

He's one of the biggest counters to the Vitriol turn one goal. Putting the ball on him means Glut Mass stops her from getting the ball, Counter-charge means he can punish her charging in, Hideous Odor means she doesn't have enough influence to shoot if Vitriol even gets that far.

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On 7/12/2017 at 9:48 AM, Cleavelander said:

I have a slightly off topic question for you.  Why do you like Compound into Alchemists?

As has already been briefly said, Compound into Alchemists is the hard counter to the Turn 1 goal from Vitriol. I'll just flesh that answer out.

On receiving the ball, pass to Compound or have the big fella go get it himself if he can retreat to Rush-Keeper range of the goal, spend 1 INF for Horrific Odour. Engineers are strong/consistent passers, so this ought not be a problem. 

Of course, Vitriol can still try to get the ball, but she can't do all of her usual shenanigans (i.e. Charge for Clone and momentum + Attack again for the Tackle + Shoot = Goal) because Gluttonous Mass allows you to ignore the first successful Attack. So she loses that C3 "Momentous Clone" result she needs, and so she won't have the momentum to shoot, because her Tackle (unlike our many players in our Guild) isn't momentous. She can't even pass back because the KICK costs 2 INF within 6" of Compound with Horrific Odour activated as she's already spent 3 to get the ball. If you caught her in the trap, she's probably in big, big, trouble when you push Harry or Ballista, or Hoist into melee and beat her into the ground.

Feel free to hang onto that ball until you're ready to make a goal-run on your own terms. If you aren't being pressured to move the ball into play, don't. Beat them up for a bit. 

Remember that Compound also has a Tackle on C2, which makes getting it back on a counter attack a bit easier. Also, make sure to put up Horrific Odour early-ish in each turn for maximum 'tilt'. Haha!

Bonus: This is a video demonstrating the hard-counter that Gluttonous Mass and Close Control are to the Vitriol Turn 1 goal threat. It also goes into other ways to work around the set-play if Compound isn't in your line up.

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17 hours ago, Tankard said:

Also, make sure to put up Horrific Odour early-ish in each turn for maximum 'tilt'. Haha!

It is worth remembering that if it comes to it you can True Replication "Horrific Odor" off of Compound with Hoist to put the aura upfield as well. This is not often useful but is something that can happen.

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17 hours ago, Tankard said:

As has already been briefly said, Compound into Alchemists is the hard counter to the Turn 1 goal from Vitriol. I'll just flesh that answer out.

*snipped good stuff for sake of compactness*

That is an interesting take.  I will try it some time.  I have methods to avoid the Vitriol threat, but I usually have to go into the think tank for a few minutes to solve the problem that she poses.  If Compound's denial is as automatic as you say, then it could make a lot of sense to use him.  

My typical counter is to get the ball to Colossus or Velocity, and to get that player more than 10 inches from my goal.  For Velocity, def 5 and Close control are usually enough that being within 10 of the goal isn't a problem.  Colossus, however, she can wrap with a charge(defensive stance helps), and I have to watch out for that.  Lately I've also tried dishing the ball to PV, as she can be 14 inches from vitriol and still threaten to kill her(though at the cost of quite a lot of damage to herself).    

If vitriol's kick is further than 12" from herself, I usually just leave the ball on the ground.  Or frequently I place the ball on the ground somewhere she can't get it.  I'll often setup a turn 2 mother goal in this manner with her double nest shenanigans.

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