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Zarodis

New Guild ball masons player

Hey guys, some guys at my local game store convinced me to get guild ball, and I've really enjoyed it so far. I got the kick off set and really liked the masons, so I've played a handful of games with them. While I don't necessarily do bad, I've struggled with hunter and engineers, and seem to usually come up short in games by about 2-3 vp. I was just wondering if you guys had any advice on tactics, and which models I should order next. Currently I have the starting 6, hammer, and chisel.  Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

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Highly recommend picking up Tower to give your game some defense and real punch, then probably a Union option whenever you're ready for that (Mist or Decimate seem like the hotness for Masons). 

It sounds like you're struggling against strong late-game teams with Masons, which is no surprise: Masons have a lot of fun tricks and powerful gimmicks for the early game, but can sometimes run out of steam as the game drags on. I think if you can get to the ball, going for goals with Honour/Harmony combos (or Mist or Flint, to sometimes lesser extents) is always a good idea to close out a game. If you're struggling to meaningfully control the ball, do your best to never charge with Masons in a fight, and instead make sure each INF you spend turns into a Momentum. That should give you enough juice to reliably heal players and keep Marbles and Honour in the scrum, dicing people up :)

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Chisel isn't great, don't worry about her unless you somehow have a slot free in your 10. Tower is pretty cool, especially with Hammer. I quite like Minx for a Union slot for Hammer, as she can set you up (Snare, Banshee thing, Marked Target), although the Masons suffer badly from a lack of 2" melee, so Mist could be good as well (although I love Flint for his hard-to-stop goal scoring).

Masons often like grouping together to support each other and beat down on opponents. I have found that Honour and Harmony end up as the lynch-pin of the team when you use them - not only can they set up huge goal threat, but linked + Family means you can pile up to 10 INF of TAC 6 attacks into a single model without the opponent having a chance to respond.

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That's one thing I need to make more use of is marbles and honour going in together. I get wary of putting marbles in contact with other models because of his low health pool. Tower will be who I order next then! I'm guessing tower is used a lot then in most games? Who are typically the masons core starting figures?

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Don't hesitate to charge Marbles into the fray.  He's only worth 1 VP and loved creature discourages attacks.  Having Marbles engage someone puts a lot of pressure on them since it allows Honor to put a ton of damage into them.

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It makes me sad that chisel is bad, she seemed really cool. I actually wanted to order tower and hammer from the shop, but they're supplier was out of him, so I think next I may order tower and minx or mist based on your guys advice. Im glad to have a new perspective on marbles though, I've mainly used him as a charge threat with brick!

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3 hours ago, Zarodis said:

It makes me sad that chisel is bad, she seemed really cool. I actually wanted to order tower and hammer from the shop, but they're supplier was out of him, so I think next I may order tower and minx or mist based on your guys advice. Im glad to have a new perspective on marbles though, I've mainly used him as a charge threat with brick!

She's better than many give her credit for. As a Striker Hunter she presents a serious threat to models with low health pools, especially if tooled up. You won't be 1-turning like you can with Cosset, but she can reliably strip the ball from high Def Strikers without fear of counterattacks and then put up feel my pain, to further punish them for trying to get it back. This damage accumulates fast. She's also capable in a pinch of laying into bigger targets, especially if they have low defenses. Don't go chasing her painful rage though, that's just asking for her to be taken out.

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Yeah, it's not that Chisel is bad. But depending on the composition, you can't really put that many beaters in your list. So, you have to choose, and often it comes down to reliability (Mallet), or burst (Chisel). More often than not, Mallet will probably be better in more circumstances.

 

I will also put another vote in for Tower. In Season 3, he is incredibly important. Even if you don't understand the nuances with him, just having Tooled Up with Honour makes her a monster.

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Who is does tower typically replace as in line up in that case? I guess it would be brick since harmony and honour have a lot of chemistry together. 

That makes sense to me, I could see why mallet could be favored, especially with his reach and forceful blow ability.

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Line up selection really depends on who you're facing

Tower is good into teams that have Tough Hide (Tooled Up), KD's (Protect those Close) or that rely heavily on Charges (Defend the Ground)

Honour likes Marbles and the monkey likes Brick (plus he donates INF to Honour) so I wouldn't drop the big guy from your line up

So, the choice comes down to what other player to can do with out

Mallet has a great Playbook tool box with Singled out and Smashed Shins but is a bit slow - I personally hate leaving him off the team but you might consider it vs faster teams

Flint scores but you might find Honour and Harmony enough of a goal threat so he could be replaced against teams that want to brawl (Brewers or Vet Rages Union)

Harmony is great with Honour but drops in value when Honour gets taken out - might want to replace her against teams with captains that are super strong killers (Fillet, Vet Rage or Scalpel)

My best advice if to practice with the Kick Off six, Tower and maybe the odd game with Hammer as your captain - add Wrecker when you want to try a different mascot; you'll learn which combination of players works best for you against other teams

 

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Many great Masons players already covered most of the bases, but I'll just throw in a few of my own thoughts here:

Honour is the more flexible captain, but Hammer is brutal against certain teams (there have been many threads on it, including one I started) once you play the team more.

Harmony (original) is a must take when you take Honour.  The sister combo just gives you stupidly fun combos (either 12 INF to try to kill someone or scoring from miles away if you have the ball)

Marbles with Honour is super good, though don't be afraid to use Wrecker when you're facing squishy teams that are fast and footbally.  Wrecker's annoyance is valuable in those situations where you don't need the +1 TAC/DAM

Flint - for me, he's a must take.  I've played a few games without him, and I think my win-rate is abysmally low without Flint.  Then again, that might just be my style vs other coaches here.  Flint gives you the constant goal scoring pressure against the opponent, or just a distraction for them to spend time and effort chasing and killing.  

Mallet - just all around toolbox and that 3" reach is amazing (and unique until Thresher came along with 6/8" move AND extended reach), Singled out, Smashed shins, and one of the only semi reliable KD on the Masons team.

Tower - he's just so useful in so many situations.  Want damage?  got it.  Want defense?  got it.  Want to not get KD everywhere?  got it.  Want a decent scorer?  got it.  The only thing he doesn't do super well is damage, unless the person is on the ground.  

Union - I'm a huge fan of Mist, especially against teams that are better at killing than you and kill the ball.  Having Mist and Flint on the board means you can play the ball game without getting slaughtered (mainly against Butchers and Brewers).  Minx is also great, esp with Hammer.  You have to be careful not to bring her against teams that have a lot of Unpredictable Movement or 2" models that can lock her down.  Snakeskin is interesting, only against super football teams where you can kill the ball with her well.  Decimate is solid but lost her "must take" status when Second wind is only once per turn.  I never take A&G with Masons.

The others...  

Chisel - she was amazing in S2, but got pretty nerfed by the icy sponge and "crazy" changes, without getting any buffs in return.  She's still great against footballing teams, but any team that can kill decently well, don't bring her. (though I have used her very effectively against a Fillet Butchers team... so YMMV)

vHarmony - there are so many things I want to change about her... but I would leave her last to get if you're building your team

Brick - I used to take him in every game I play, and now I rarely take him.  Use him in timed games (like tournaments) where the opponent wastes time trying to figure out how to deal with the double counter charge (with Marbles).  In an un-timed game, he's pretty easy to neuter and it just makes your game longer. :P 

Granite - Not worth getting until you're more experienced with the game.  She's not easy to use against teams that can slow her down with snare or fire or rough ground..

 

Besides the Kickoff team, I would probably get Tower, Mist, and Minx and call it a day.  Learn what your style is, and then get the other models as needed.  

Welcome to the Masons!

 

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Hey guys, I really appreciate your advice on the topic, I went to the shop today to play a timed game and actually went 12-0 against the engineer team I was having trouble with!

i still have the starting 6, but I used them a lot more like you guys said. 

Turn one the main play for the engineers was to get the ball to velocity, and run her towards my goal. He went up the side, I superior strategied mallet, engaged her and pushed her. I won the momentum and roll that turn and went first.

turn two I pushed velocity off the side of the pitch with mallet placing the ball in the middle which scattered to colossus, and then had marbles on ballista, and tag teamed him with the sisters. I once again win the momentum race. 

Turn 3 I went first again, and killed ballista with honour, and had harmony then engage colossus and kept her within four inches of brick, I took the ball and kicked it to flint who ran off on his own. I once again win the momentum race. 

I go first again on turn four and use the sisters and brick to kill colossus, and pump my momentum up yet again, keeping a lot of people together and had mallet returning to the pitch, and I used brick to engage ratchet and knock him down. He moved up ballista a little far that turn which set me up for an easy sisters kill. 

The final turn the sisters finished off ballista again and flint ran in and scored a goal on compound by staying in Melee range to not trigger rush keeper, and I used a bonus time die. 

All in all the guy felt kinda shocked and surprised, it felt really good to play the masons so fluidly! Next is the hunters guy so I'll see how I do but I really appreciate all the help from everyone!

Also, it was my first times game and I managed to do it under time. So that was pretty cool.

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Nice one! Glad to see all the advice helped. I'm wondering what will happen next time you play him - will he be on the engineer's forum, asking for advice against Mason? How will his tactics change to deal with that nasty Honour/Harmony/Marbles death trio?

Make sure you post about the Hunters game!

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As an update to my other games! 

So I played a brewers team next, I managed to floor them as a Masons player as well. 

Turn one I receive and Flint gets the ball, I can't it him behind a forest in the center of the pitch and end my activation, I follow this up with honour giving flint superior strategy, he ends up having a dirty knives on him, and stave tries to move up and lob barrels. I ended up moving flint through the forest, punching stave, getting the momentous push dodge result and dodging up to score a goal on the third activation, I then dodged back into the forest and as everyone moved into flint, I moved everyone towards him as protection. With the exception of mallet who went on the wing to get closer to spigot who had the ball. 

Turn two I go first again luckily, and mallet runs charges spigot and gets a couple hits in, knocking him down and sending the ball towards the back of the brewers pitch, tapper then comes in and proceeds to wreck shop on poor flint, and forcing me to move back at 1 hp, at this point Friday does another dirty knives and flint bites the dust. I then use the sisters to move in on Friday and generate momentum, doing a few points of damage and getting closer to tapper and stave. Stave then goes and throws more barrels sticking next to tapper for that aura, hits harmony but not honour pushing her back into the forest and dealing two damage. So I then move brick up to be imposing, hooper moves up to attempt a swing on brick and I charge in with marbles, to get him in range of tapper and stave. With my last activation, I move the monkey up into tapper and stave sticking in hoppers range. 

I win the momentum race, and start the third turn, load up honour mallet and harmony, top out and things get nasty, I walk in with honor and start swinging on stave hitting 6 damage with her 4 result and a 2 momentous 3 times in a row and getting knockdown to prevent his counter, I then kill kill him with the same result and a double dodge into tapper, i smack tapper twice and run in with harmony leaving tapper now at 3 health and in a pool of problems. Hooper comes in to try and help out, and pushes a few people away but I'm at 7 momentum and run in mallet and finish off tapper.  

The field now looks like the nasty beater four in the center, with Friday, hooper, and the cat there, flint is after the ball and brick is still being brick. With hooper already gone and me up 8 momentum my opponent conceded, because hooper was next on the chopping block and I was just going to pick people off bit by bit.  

The engineers I played against has been less one sided now, I still manage to win, I have won 12-8 each time, however it's all been due to the sister wombs combo scoring goals and wrecking models. Though the problem I've had in this matchup is I feel like flint has been alone, without him having the ball a lot he hasn't been able to do much. Due to him not being super tough I haven't been too aggressive and haven't moved him around, how I have had him in position for snapshots, but honestly the sisters mainly score goals.Flint is a super star at scoring but sometimes I wonder if he could be substituted for Tower, in favor of a more ridiculous honour fest?

Everyone I haven played seems to have a lot of trouble with the sisters and don't know how to handle them.

However I have yet to beat the hunters player, my last game 8-12 I fogot chaska could shoot a player 4 inches off the map and Flint got wrecked. And the ball went with him and the hunters were up 6-0 in no time. Brick seems to get stifled a lot by them, and the traps mess with me a lot too. And I'm still only working with the starting 6. I feel like I'm doing better but the matchup still feels quite challenging in my opinion. 

Any thoughts?

I almost lost one of the engineer games but I killed ballista twice, after velocity kicked two goals on me I got the ball back on a kick in and  forced my opponent to move and take all activations before honour who had the ball, allowing me to gain positions and momentum, which I then took honour who had the ball, scored it, and made a 4" dodge towards they're models and closer to velocity. Velocity got the ball, however being up 2 momentum caused me to go first and load up the sisters again and strip the ball, get momentum and score another goal. 

The Engineers player also chooses ballista over pin vice because he has a hard time playing her correctly.

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Good, thorough reports. Well done.

You will need to find another trick once they work out how to kill Harmony and stop the sister act. Enjoy it while it lasts.:)

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I play Union, but mainly only play into Masons. A few things I've noted playing into Masons so much:

The Honour/Harmony double activation is scary, but once it happens in a turn, I feel I pretty much have the rest of the turn to do what I want. Most times when I play against Masons, they load up Honour/Harmony to destroy somebody or score, but then they're usually influence starved for the rest of the turn. The person I play usually only uses the double activation toward the end of the game, to take the final goal or final takeout. Also, after a while, the trick doesn't work as well, because most players either target Harmony or keep her out of Honour's range. Honour/Harmony was really strong when we started, but the Masons player I play against is looking to drop Harmony in more match-ups.

A lot of times, he'll use Marble's counter-charge to protect Brick's counter-charge. I've gone to engage Brick a lot against him, to deny the counter charge on a later activation, only for him to use Marble's charge to push my player back out of engagement, freeing up Brick's charge again. He'll also leave Marbles engaged for crowd outs, but I've taken to just killing him off later in the turn; if I can take him out in a single activation, the +1 from loved creature doesn't matter too much to me, as he would have had +1 from the crowd out anyway. Just something to keep an eye out for, while loved creature does discourage attacks, it won't stop it completely, especially if they know you have Honour inbound.

With Flint, he has a lot of matches where Flint doesn't do too much, but a lot of that is just having Flint on the field forces me to try to play around him. I know if Flint gets the ball, he will most likely score, so a lot of my game is keep away from Flint. He made a comment to me the other day about Flint not doing much on the field, and I told him it's because he's too dangerous as a striker! Just having Flint on the field forces me to change up a lot of what I'm doing.

I don't play Masons, but they're about the only team I play against, so this is a lot of the stuff I'm always watching for.

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I've learned a lot of handy tricks, like the mallet missle, and 1st turn Flint shenanigans, and of course the ever imposing brick and marbles wrecking crew. They've especially netted me extra time in the game, by forcing my opponent to play around them. I've got tower on the way now so I can't wait to get him running. I took the time to get them painted up and everything. I've really come to enjoy guildball a lot. It feels super fresh and fun to me, and the fluff is fun to read.  Especially the ridiculous  season one Flint goal. I've come to learn that on the alpha strike the team is very strong, and going first a lot seems to give the masons an advantage in my opinion. I'm really glad I got to play them as my demo team, they just clicked and became so much fun for me. I just wish my community was a bit bigger because as of now it's about 4 consistent players including me. So my experience has been kind of limited. 

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Tournaments take a bit more commitment but I have enjoyed all those that I have been to. They give you a crash course in he variety of play styles and guilds. 4 or 5 games in a day means you sleep well that night too!

 

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