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Napoleon

What are the conditions to choose between Ghast and Casket?

okay so, i'm tearing my hair out over this in the best way possible. i love both these models, for different reasons. Yet they fill essentially the same "slot" on the team. The "mid field enforcer" who goes up and gets in peoples face and is hard to kill. 

Casket brings some pretty solid activations by moving up and rough grounding foes, landing his auto hitting heavy burden off a playbook result, and once per game contributes with Casket Time which is a huge advantage to reaching 12 vp first. Not all casket times are equal either, since a captain casket time = game over, probably, depending on how early it happens

Ghast on the other hand is 2" melee, better TAC, better overall damage output, better counter attacks and considerably easier knockdowns. There are many players who simply lose their activation if they begin b2b with ghast who hasn't had fear triggered. Vitriol is one of my favourite examples. If she attacks him and he counters, even if she pops cloned and makes a 2" dodge shes still in his melee and with 2 inf left, and then she has to attack again to get clear. the push dodge on the other hand either won't work because he can take a knockdown or a >> to push her back b2b, very cruel result.

How do you choose between them, typically?

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I had to pick between purchasing one of them and I picked up Ghast because he seemed so much more consistent. 2" Melee with a more accessible knockdown, he provides you MP to fuel your plans elsewhere when he takes some damage, and I found his story really cool to boot, which was a pretty big plus.

But at the level I play at, it probably doesn't matter that much because they're both really good at doing Spooky stuff.

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I've been playing a very slow game on vassal and so far my Ghast has forced flint to be fully inf stocked to manage one goal (and then ended up hiding behind my goal to avoid giving away VP), and chisel has spent most of the game KD and as a result being used as a springboard by scalpel to dodge and sprint for the ball.

 

Granted, me and my opponent aren't winning tournaments any time soon, but he's pulled his weight in disruption, distraction and hasn't used much inf to do it!

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Caskets likely unsupported damage output is higher and is momentous where Ghasts isnt. He can hold 4 influence, his plays are situational very valuable.

Ghast main use is if you need another 2" model.

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When to take Casket over Ghast?

This is one of the toughest decisions I seem to face with Morticians. 9 times out of 10 I take Ghast and I am never disappointed. The times when Casket has made it onto the pitch he has been MVP. I like Casket against Corsair, Hammer, and Esters. 

Against Corsair, he runs straight into the middle and holds the line until I have almost won. He attracts a lot of attention and its fun watching my opponent sink influence into him. I heal him every chance I get and he just does not die, which buys me time to get the needed goals/take outs. I always use him against Corsair!

Against Hammer he fills a similar role to what he does against Corsair, but first he puts Hammer in the Casket. I usually put someone like Silence out T1 to bait Hammer into charging into my line. Once hammer has destroyed one of my players I gang up on him, beat him down to 1-2hp and Rigamortis to make sure they can't heal him, and ensure the first activation in T2. Casket time on T2 then run Casket up to hold the line, and not die, while I win.

Against the Brewers, I use the Scalpel/Casket combo to push dodge Esters into the Casket. Casket is Fantastic against the Brewers in general; Ghostly Visage and Heavy Burden are amazing against the already slow Brewers.

 

They are the three captains that I know for sure Casket is my preferred enforcers, but I am sure there are more out there.

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If they have a superstar captain that needs to go in the box, it's Casket.

Ghast is better in pretty much every other way and is my default choice though.

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In general I like Ghast, but I am a big fan of 2" melee models, as he can cover more board space.  With that said, I did play one game v Fish and I put Shark into the box.  That was sweet!  :)

 

 

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On 2017-5-29 at 0:57 AM, CurlyPaul said:

If they have a superstar captain that needs to go in the box, it's Casket.

Ghast is better in pretty much every other way and is my default choice though.

so vs shark, midas, thresher (heart and soul of his team, generally, strikerwise and damage wise), fillet and honour?

1 hour ago, mr baron said:

In general I like Ghast, but I am a big fan of 2" melee models, as he can cover more board space.  With that said, I did play one game v Fish and I put Shark into the box.  That was sweet!  :)

 

 

living the dream, removing captains with the box is so satisfying

On 2017-5-28 at 9:32 PM, LeadDiceandBeers said:

Caskets likely unsupported damage output is higher and is momentous where Ghasts isnt. He can hold 4 influence, his plays are situational very valuable.

Ghast main use is if you need another 2" model.

Funny that you and curly paul have the exact opposite opinion, its so easy to see things either way because they're both great. 

 

I have been testing between them and still have an utterly inconclusive results. Although i have been enjoying heavy burden a lot.

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I use Ghast when I'm expecting lots of 2" melee as I prefer Casket when possible. So Alchemist, Brewers, Fish and Farmers all get Ghast aka I almost never get to play Casket haha. I am 7-0 in games where I get casket time off. The tempo swing is rediculous. 

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9 hours ago, FaiLoadeDice said:

I use Ghast when I'm expecting lots of 2" melee as I prefer Casket when possible. So Alchemist, Brewers, Fish and Farmers all get Ghast aka I almost never get to play Casket haha. I am 7-0 in games where I get casket time off. The tempo swing is rediculous. 

Ghast's fear is pretty good vs the vitriol kick off, agreed on fish. but i think i'm leaning towards casket more for Brewers and Farmers

Ghast can't really use his counter attacks vs brewers because of all the knockdown, whereas heavy burden is quite useful at tagging players who haven't gotten to the fight yet, or just hitting up friday off a playbook result to make sure she can't do any striking.

As for farmers, i'm still not sure. They have plenty of knockdowns, and some players who it doesn't matter if ghast counters to use his great counters because of all the 2" melee. They also lack good counter attacks, except for the donkey, meaning the knockdown condition isn't as critical as knocking down say, any of the TAC 6 captains who have a << on 2 in one form or another.

But at the same time, better ganging and the fact farmer statlines always involve at least one, if not more potato statlines means you can essentially hit any playbook result you like after knockdown. Unmasking x2 or x3 is actually pretty possible when going after harrow (KD), windle (anytime) or grange (KD), and i lived the graves1 dream in the last farmer match i played where graves did over 40 damage (including bleed) w/ 4 influence by targetting windle.

Right now i lean towards casket just because imo, thresher is the better captain and ghasts 2" melee isn't worth much vs him, whereas a casket time is game over

 

 

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I'm going to think outside of the box and say that I don't think it's a choice between them. It's usually a choice between Casket and another player like Brainpan&Memory.

 

im pretty sure that I've never played a game without Ghast. And I can't overly imagone doing. Fear and Rising Anger are such superb passive abilities that he's a mainstay of my team.

 

Casket on the other hand is a damage sponge. Yes he's easy to hit but with Tough Hide and Reanimate he's going to make the opposing team work hard for the takeout.

I love Brainpan and Memory but they aren't overly viable in matchups such as Brewers/Butchers as Brainpan will be a liability and Memory may spend most of his time knocked down and not doing much but siphoning momentum from you. In those situations I have been trialling using both Casket AND Ghast, and I can't say I'm disappointed,  even with a lowish INF pool.

 

TL:DR - I might not be as simple as Ghast OR Casket :)

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I like the idea of Ghast and Casket (Ghasket?), who do you drop for them? What's the rest of your lineup?

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35 minutes ago, Mako said:

I like the idea of Ghast and Casket (Ghasket?), who do you drop for them? What's the rest of your lineup?

This is an odd start so the goal here then would be to tar pit? So might as well go full crazy and go. Scalpel, Vileswarm, vGraves, Ghast, Casket, BpM.  The amount of pushing you can do with Scalpel and vGraves with your 2 tanks is harsh VS can actually eat people in the lineup. BpM for easy crowd out. It would be UpTo Scalpel to score at least once. But vG and Casket might be able to pull off a 5vp takeout. 

11 inf is a hard handycap to recover from though. 

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3 hours ago, Mako said:

I like the idea of Ghast and Casket (Ghasket?), who do you drop for them? What's the rest of your lineup?

Personally I love Obulus, Dirge, Ghast, Graves1 and Mist. Then Brainpan/Memory if I'm trying to deal damage or goal threat for 2/2 or Casket if I'm aiming to tarpit in the middle whilst scoring 3. Casket can also quickly swing to 2 goals/1 takeout if the scrum starts going my way.

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2 hours ago, Not_that_one said:

Personally I love Obulus, Dirge, Ghast, Graves1 and Mist. Then Brainpan/Memory if I'm trying to deal damage or goal threat for 2/2 or Casket if I'm aiming to tarpit in the middle whilst scoring 3. Casket can also quickly swing to 2 goals/1 takeout if the scrum starts going my way.

isn't the point of casket that the scrum doesn't have to go your way, you just have to kill one player to be equivalent to a goal, which is rather easy with puppet master and/or lure to isolate people? 

IMO morticians can never aim from 3/0 from the get-go, most teams can't. 3/0 can happen situationally but morts are a 2/2 team at their heart that can flex to 1/4, 1/3, 2/1, or 3/0 depending on the situation, and both teams rosters

Personally i find them mutually exclusive because they are 1 inf tarpit players. They really do the same thing just in different ways. Ghast tanking comes from his amazing counter attacks though.

Then the reason on top of that is -- fighting for places with other team member is a really brutal thing in morts. This might be a personal problem, but i actually really struggle picking morticians lineup because i think almost every mortician model is extremely good.  The only ones i don't rate are bonesaw, scalpel and vGraves. Scalpel is not my cup of tea, bonesaw i like in certain situations but wish his base def was 5, and vGraves i'll play casually because i don't think hes so awful, i just don't have any compelling reason to take him when oGraves and the other mortician models are incredible.

My lineups usually revolve around

Obulus - dirge [unchanging pair]

Casket/Ghast [big guy slot]

A&G [Union slot]

oGraves [Hard not to give this guy his own dedicated slot]

Silence/BPM/Cosset [Flex utility slot]

i usually filter down the decisions based on match up, so ob, dirge, A&G, Graves are first standard picks to let me see most of the opponents roster, Casket/Ghast i haven't figured out how to choose between but final slot is usually the decision of if i want raw damage, less damage but more striking or hard control. A&G get replaced any time that i feel like greede is more of a liability than an asset, like using him to score vs vet kat, or anyone who takes him out really easy. That lets BPM swing up to the A&G slot. Although avarisses access to KD and singled out on a TAC 6 model is really spectacular. and i almost never regret giving avarisse 2-3 inf a turn, especially if it primes the team to take out a shutout captain via KD, singled out and >> towards the team

so personally, to me, i can't really bring both because it costs the team 2 influence and crowds out other important slots and players.  Can't say i'm the biggest fan of mist either because if you give him 4 and circumstances don't allow him to football, then well, 4 influence down the drain. Whereas i dont think i've ever regretted avarisse getting 3 influence

 

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