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Siberys

Help me with my Cogs 10

I'm trying to suss out what my S3 Engineer's 10 will be and I'm having some trouble with it. Currently I'm thinking the following;

Ballista, Pin Vice, [Mainspring | Mother], Locus, Compound, Hoist, Ratchet, Salvo, Velocity, Harry

Captains: The big question I'd like to answer is "What pairings do I bring which captain to?" My current thoughts are as follows;

Ballista - Brewers, Butchers, Morticians, Masons, Union; teams that want to scrum it, teams that are slow, and/or teams with low defenses

Pin Vice - Alchemists, Engineers, Fishermans, Hunters; teams that are trying to play a faster goal-oriented game

The Players: I like to work out one or two pre-set 6-player lists I can later tweak for certain match-ups. I'm currently thinking the "baselines" for each side are;

- Ballista, *, Hoist, Ratchet, Salvo, Locus. This list is built to take advantage of MI, to severely punish whoever gets into a middle-board fight via a TU chain (Ratchet->Hoist->Ballista/Locus), and to get opportunistic goals - think a Corsair build that uses ranged CPs for damage instead of tarpitting.

- Pin Vice, *, Hoist, Ratchet, Velocity, Compound. This list makes playing the ball game passively more costly while being good at it itself, and it can go for a kill if necessary.

Here's where my problem with the Engineers comes through; I regularly want 7 players on my teams! Velocity for the first, and Harry for the second. I think the Ballista team can get away without Velocity, as Hoist and/or Ballista can definitely score if needed and this team is aiming after a 2-2. It's the Pin Vice team that's got me; maybe I should cut Ratchet for Harry, since I'd already have Deletion on PV and doubling up is probably overkill. That said, without Ratchet I lose Overclocked and some potential synergy with Mainspring if I go with it.

I could also replace Salvo with Harry in the Ballista lineup, I guess, but then I'm right back at having a "spare" model. Which wouldn't be the end of the world, I'd just like to have a solid matchup to bring it into.

Mascots: I like both Engineer's mascots - both are usually batteries, both can still contribute without Influence. Mother looks to contribute better when there's nothing for her to do, but if you need to strip the ball and make a pass Mainspring could do it on 1 INF while Mother would need 2. One possibility is I could cut Harry and run both mascots - Mother probably goes in Ballista and Mainspring in PV - but I'm not sure I like two-mascot lists.

That'd end up with the following;

Ballista, Pin Vice, Mainspring, Mother, Compound, Hoist, Locus, Ratchet, Salvo, Velocity

-----

Have you guys got any advice for the lists I'm suggesting? In particular I'm not fully sold on Mainspring, Salvo, or Locus; the latter two look fun with MI but I'm afraid the Gunline list is a bit on the "cute" side, y'know? I could also see switching out Mainspring for Harry and defaulting to him over Ratchet in the PV list.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, I wanted a section on other models;

VVelocity: I could run her over OVel (and maybe switch Compound for Harry); she seems good to get return goals up and running. Not sure it's worth waiting for my opponent to score past me though.

Colossus: I considered him over Locus, but man do I wish he still had Ramming Speed. He'd probably fit better in the PV lineup though and I really have no idea who I'd cut for Daddy Longlegs.

Decimate: She was good for damage in S2, but we don't need the help quite so much any longer. Pass.

Rage: Like Decimate, we don't have a momentous-damage-shaped-hole in the team any longer, plus his TU can't be applied outside of himself now. Pass.

A&G: Avarisse's playbook and singled out we could get in-guild via Colossus, and we don't need the out-of-nowhere goal capability the way, say, Fish like to have. Pass.

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I don't know about the guildline.  Killing the other team 2-3 wounds at a time is a pretty steep order.  I tend to drop out Salvo in a lot of lists.  I may want to trade him for Velocity.  Downside is that this leaves long-range shots for Hoist to replicate.  Upside is that he could replicate nimble or dodge.  I think if I were going to drop Velocity from either list it would be the second, because Pin Vice can pick up the scoring slack.  Maybe she can be traded if you really want a spot for Harry.  As to mascots, I was going straight to Mother for a while, but I have recently started to come back to Mainspring.  His ability to move the ball along without any influence and donate his one to the team is about as close to a battery as we get, and it can be a really nice way to generate momentum.

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I run the same 10, but with Mother as the mascot.s

- Take Ballista against teams which revolves heavily around a single model - like Shark or (non-VRage) Brisket

- Take Pin Vice against very damage focused teams which can close on and kill Ballista i.e. Butchers, Union if they have VRage

- Take Pin Vice against very football focused teams where you can out-score them with your close control models and mobility, like Alchemists

- Take Ballista against mixed teams which will have trouble extracting the ball from Velocity and you can reasonably expect to get some kills against, like Masons and Morticians.

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@Gauntlet - I assume you mean my first list (with Harry), aye?

In each of those matchups, what do you expect your six'll look like? When do you pick whom, and who on the team is situational?

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2 hours ago, Siberys said:

@Gauntlet - I assume you mean my first list (with Harry), aye?

In each of those matchups, what do you expect your six'll look like? When do you pick whom, and who on the team is situational?

Yeah I run Harry.

Into Butchers: Pin Vice, Hoist, Velocity, Ratchet, Harry/Compound/Locus

Just play football, Tool up / overclock PV to oneshot their captain if you get the opportunity.

Into Fishermen: Ballista, Velocity, Compound, Harry, Ratchet

Put the ball on Velocity and beat the team to death. NB. Corsair hates Compound.

Masons: Ballista, Velocity, Ratchet, Harry, Locus/Compound/Salvo

Control the captain, they're entirely melee and you can abuse that thoroughly.

Brewers: Pin Vice, Velocity, Hoist, Ratchet, Harry/Compound/Locus

See Butchers.

Alchemists: Pin Vice, Velocity, Ratchet, Compound, Harry/Salvo/Locus

Out-football them or put the ball on Velocity and kill them, either is okay.

Morticians: Ballista, Harry, Compound, Locus, Ratchet (if Obulus)/Velocity (if Scalpel)

Control the captain and grind them down.

Union: Pin Vice, Velocity, Harry, Compound, Ratchet

See Butchers.

Hunters: not played them enough to say.

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@Gauntlet  Have you had much experience with Locus? I'm wanting to put him on the table but he's just so underwhelming on paper. I don't really see his role on the pitch other than standing in the middle looking silly.

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@Gauntlet I'm surprised how poorly you rate Colossus, especially into Alchemists.  2" reach with an easy knock down or tackle is great against their UM superstar captains and Engineers have very limited access to 2" reach.

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@xenwall I'm liking the look of Locus more and more:

- His character plays mean that while it's not the most useful thing in the world, and INF you put on him is never wasted / you always get reasonable utility out of him

- He's the only non-Captain engineer with a momentous 3 damage in his playbook.

- KD on the first column gives you a potential answer to models which are otherwise particularly difficult for us to get the ball off (i.e. Velocity)

- He's a Mechanica who fits well in a Ballista team, which gives you a model Ratchet can Overclock for damage (since killing people with Velocity or Hoist is pretty underwhelming)

- He's very durable and generally hard to deal with for a lot of teams. 3+/2 in cover is a pain. He's actually a particular problem for Midas, because he gets yanked into B2B if he engages you and his >< doesn't let him immediately disengage because of Stoic, so Locus is one of the few models he can't bounce off for Momentum without getting KDed.

@MechMage If colossus was in my 10, I would probably bring him in against Fishermen and Alchemists. Mainly because they like to kite around the flanks, and Colossus is pretty solid at shoving them off the board.

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There are 2 models I really like to play with and HATE playing without.  Ratchet and Colossus.  Harry continues to not make my 10 because he gets beaten out by Engineers models especially those two.  I have started coming around on Compound as well.  The other team has to think about that Rush Keeper counter charge when they close in for a first turn goal. He has shut down Skatha and Shark so far. He even took Skatha out 2nd turn in my last game.

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I have played Locus in 4 games now. 2 games against Honor Masons, 1 games against Skaatha Hunters, and 1 against Midas engineers. My lineup was Ballista, Colossus, Locus, Velocity, Hoist, and Mainspring. 

Locus has died in every game, i expect him too. I use his remote control every game because i go for a knockdown game which really frustrates opponents. That is when the remote control really works. 3 goal games is what ends up happening for me. I can get serious board control when i load Colossus up with 3 on turn 2 and up followed by Hoist true replicating remote control or destructive impulse from Locus. 3 models that can knock down momentously is a chore to deal with. In Short Colossus and Locus are in my 10.    

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I'm a recent convert to Pin Vice and Mother.

Tournament 10 proving hard... just as an actual team of 6 is!

Ballista, Pin Vice, Mother, Velocity, Hoist, Ratchet, Colossus, Locus - those 8 for me without question but beyond that... Salvo, Compound, Harry, Mainspring vying for those final slots.

I think Mainspring loses out as Mother provides so much more for me - a goal threat, ball retrieval, nests reducing dice and underestimated as a threat as only a mascot. Mainspring not as effective now the bug bomb isn't as viable. I've also been on the receiving end of the bug blowing up around my own team. The free long range pass is nice and opponents sometimes caught out by it as they don't see influence.

Compound... yes 2" reach where it may be lacking elsewhere... yes a goalkeeper and yes gluttonous mass. I've just never gotten much from him in a game. Have used him to shut down Boar on occasions.

Salvo... nerfed a wee bit from previous versions... think there are better options available. Tetherball good for ball retrieval but then remote control and webbing possibly better at that. Getting the ball back is one thing but using it another. He goes down very quickly for me against bashy teams or well any team.

Harry - 2" reach very nice... the hat... nice decent playbook but... who do I replace?

The Ballista Gun Line I run is Ballista, Mother, Velocity, Ratchet, Hoist, Locus

The Pin Vice Football Team is Pin Vice, Mother, Velocity, Locus, Colossus, Ratchet

I never use Ratchet to his full potential though always forgetting to overclock or heal mechanica.

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There was a small local tournament last weekend and I brought Pin Vice, Ballista, Mother, Hoist, Velocity, Locus, Colossus, Compound, Ratchet and Salvo. The only player I didn't field in my 3 games was Velocity because I was gonna try teams that bring a little more beef. I was considering Harry and Mainspring, but both lose out to the players I already have on the roster IMO. Here are the lineups I fielded:

Pin Vice, Mother Hoist, Ratchet, Colossus, Locus against Corsair Fishermen: it worked great, but I lost on time.

Ballista, Mother, Hoist, Ratchet, Compound, Salvo against Esters Brewers: dice weren't on my side at times, but it was still a rather one-sided win.

Pin Vice, Mother, Hoist, Ratchet, Compound, Locus against Skatha Hunters: again a rather one-sided game, but Hunters are rather IMO.

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