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YrNotYrKhakis

Souls Earned calculations

I'm doing some calculations and need some assistance.  I don't have my game in front of me at the moment, but am trying to figure into account how souls earned affects gameplay.  For example, I found out that doing Double Souls / Half Sparks will equal the standard game total souls rewards, but in half the time.  Using the a Solo, one character game as an example, here's what I have.

Solo standard rules (5 sparks):
16 starter
48 for max mini boss attempts.
0 souls earned for mini boss
48 for max main boss attempts

112 total possible souls

Double Souls / Half Sparks (2 sparks):
16 starter
48 for max mini boss attempts
0 souls for mini boss
48 for max main boss attempts

112 total souls possible

You must add an attempt in there to the spark count to get the max # of tries, since you still get a try when the spark counter reads "0".  This looks like the best way to shorten the length of the game, without decreasing the difficulty.

For house ruling souls rewards, as another idea that's been going around, is to tier the soul rewards based on Encounter difficulty.  So, Level 1 is 2 souls/per character, Level 2 is 3 souls/per, and Level 3 is 4 souls/per.  Seeing as how every boss has a different combination of encounters, I want to do some calculations to see which bosses would be better off or worse off doing the tiered play.  Could someone provide what the boss cards read with respect to the encounter #s and difficulties, and I will do the calculations?

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Ok, here's the souls calculations for the bosses if you use a Tiered schedule.  Assuming a solo, 1 character, run with 5 sparks.  Compared to the 48 souls earned above, you can see how they will increasingly give you souls.  I also ordered these below in boss order of easiest encounters to hardest.

Gargoyle
3 Level1.  1 Level2
(3 x 2) + (1 x 3) = 9 Souls
6 attempts x 9 Souls =54 souls

Winged Knight AND Outrider Knight
2 Level1.  2 Level2
(2 x 2) + (2 x 3) = 10 Souls
6 x 10 = 60 Souls

Titanite Demon
1 Level1. 3 Level2
(1 x 2) + (3 x 3) = 11 Souls
6 x 11 = 66 Souls

Dancer
2 Level2.  2 Level3
(2 x 3) + (2 x 4) = 14 Souls
6 x 14 = 84 Souls

Ornstein and Smough
1 Level2.  3 Level3
(1 x 3) + (3 x 4) = 15 Souls
6 x 15 = 90 Souls

 

It's certainly not bad, but with the extra souls earned potentially this way, you could get a little more treasure to work with than the standard game, though not necessarily a shorter game than doing Double Souls and Half Sparks. 
So in summary, DS/HS method is fastest way to play without cutting difficulty (since souls potential is the same as base game).  Tiered souls method is a good way to play if you want it a little easier (and more thematic) approach to the game, with the same amount of time as base game.
Thoughts?

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Is there any clean way to use Double Souls / Half Sparks when playing with 2 or 4 players?

I suppose with 4 you could do an all-or-nothing Triple Souls / 0 Sparks. But with 5 attempts for 2 players it gets messier.

Maybe set it to 3 sparks, then first attempt normal souls, then after first rest it doubles for the rest of the game? Does the math on that work out?

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On 5/20/2017 at 11:54 AM, RedUndead40 said:

Is there any clean way to use Double Souls / Half Sparks when playing with 2 or 4 players?

I suppose with 4 you could do an all-or-nothing Triple Souls / 0 Sparks. But with 5 attempts for 2 players it gets messier.

Maybe set it to 3 sparks, then first attempt normal souls, then after first rest it doubles for the rest of the game? Does the math on that work out?

Well i can try it.

With 2 people and 4 sparks, there are a possible 80 souls you can get before the miniboss and 80 you can get before the main boss (4 per room x 4 rooms x 5 lives). We can half the sparks you get to 2 (instead of 4) meaning you have essentially 3 total runs thru the rooms. So, we can take 80 total souls / 4 rooms / 3 lives (2 sparks) and you get ~7 souls a room.

 

 

For 3-4 players, you both end up with the same amount of souls for the mini/main boss (96 souls), so these calculations should be the same for both:

If you want to play with 2 sparks, you'd get 8 souls a room.

If you want to play with 1 spark, thatd be 12 souls a room.

If you want to play with no sparks, you'd get 24 souls a room

 

 

 

 

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Have you tried just using normal sparks and souls rewards, but just remove the reset feature on tiles. 

I've been playing it that cleared tiles turn into farm tiles that you can spend a spark to generate souls from. That way it works out the same amount of souls as the base game without the grinding. 

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Yes, I have, but a little grinding belongs to it.
In addition, it can sometimes happen that the dice do not fall properly and you have to deal with the new situation.
(Especially at the beginning)

The numbers in brackets mean the following:
I had the idea that it would be a bit more exciting to get more souls for more difficult encounters.
The easiest way was to get fewer Souls for the closest encounter, and for the most distant encounter the most.

(04/08/16)

At the closest encounter you get four souls

The furthest encounter gives sixteen souls.

The other two Rooms gives 8 Souls

 

 

Berechnung.PNG

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I think the core problem is not that you need many Souls to progress, but that the equipment is not paced out well enough during the game (early you may not get stuff you can use, later you may get a lot of trash that's worse than what you need).

So I worked on a house rule for tiering the Treasure Deck:

 

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On 5/23/2017 at 2:02 PM, ElToupe said:

Yes, I have, but a little grinding belongs to it.
In addition, it can sometimes happen that the dice do not fall properly and you have to deal with the new situation.
(Especially at the beginning)

The numbers in brackets mean the following:
I had the idea that it would be a bit more exciting to get more souls for more difficult encounters.
The easiest way was to get fewer Souls for the closest encounter, and for the most distant encounter the most.

(04/08/16)

At the closest encounter you get four souls

The furthest encounter gives sixteen souls.

The other two Rooms gives 8 Souls

 

 

Berechnung.PNG

I don't understand your boss souls table, normally you're supposed to get nothing if you kill a boss with 0 sparks remaining, in your table for each cas possible you get more souls than what the game normally gives, do you fond it too hard with the normal rule?

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On 03/06/2017 at 9:33 AM, bejito81 said:

I don't understand your boss souls table, normally you're supposed to get nothing if you kill a boss with 0 sparks remaining, in your table for each cas possible you get more souls than what the game normally gives, do you fond it too hard with the normal rule?

I think he is use his own custom rules here.

Normally, you don't get more souls after finishing a encounter depending on the remaining sparks, nor do you get more souls depending on the difficulty of the encounter (that one is a shame tough and I might as him for that point).

Same for the souls gained from defeating the (mini-)boss, which should be proportional to the remaining spark, not the other way around.

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It's been a bit longer, but I try:

The rules say that you get a soul for each player and for each spark remaining two souls.

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The double souls half sparks -rule modifies the gameplay into easier mode, which I do not like: higher level encounters are easier than originally intented, as you get double souls before you need to fight them for the first time. Example: assuming 2x 1-level encounters and 2x 2-level encounters, you would have already 2x of souls gathered before going to 2-level fights for the first time, making them easier!

 

I prefer following house rule: if you mastered a encounter by NOT using any flask, luck or heroic in a team, you get to skip it from that point on, and just collect the souls from that tile in following spark(s).

 

Other option would be to get the value of souls once more from ALL encounters at once, only JUST before resting or boss-fight. This would keep the original balance. Example: play with half sparks. you fight all encounters and get normal amount of souls from each individually. you decide to rest or to go to boss: before doing so, you get again the sparks from all cleared encounters at once (= thus now getting the missing souls to get the double amount to cover playing with half sparks, without "cheating" and getting to an encounter with better equipment than you could have with original rules).

This kind of simulates as if you went the encounters twice in a ROW. The blunt "half sparks, double souls" kind of does not, it easens the following encounters also (as if you went easy encounter twice before next encounter, which you again go twice...).

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