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malladin.ben

Initial thoughts?

70 posts in this topic

Played a Bernard (Thresher) team last night. Bernard, Peck, Tater, Jackstraw, Millstone, Harrow. The team didn't feel as strong as the Grange team I played earlier, but it was against Fish, so it maybe that I would have struggled with that team because of the lack of speed.

For some reason I kept stacking Jackstraw up and thinking he might be a half decent goal threat, but so often he fell short of being able to achieve anything due to his 3 INF cap. He could bounce around the pitch quite nicely, but essentially trying to use him as an active piece proved flawed. On one occasion I lined up a perfect (for him) charge against Greyscales that if he could get off a tackle would have had a shot on goal, but without the ability to also dodge he'd be down a dice, so bonus time would be required and he'd even then only have 2 dice. As it happens he fluffed his attack (94% chance of getting that 1 hot for the tackle!) and couldn't even tackle the ball. I think I was using him wrong. He's good at spreading the harvest tokens out up field. Just give him 2INF so that he's a net-contributor and let him use crop dusting every turn and he'll be okay. A backup striker he is not. 

I never used Cocky or his heroic. I probably should, but there was always just too much activation pressure to get either off. Against Shark, there arguably wasn't that much need for it anyway, but Jac can KD them pretty reliably, given their low DEFs.

Bernard was decent, but he wants set up and I was playing him like S2 Fillet, so he was quite often on his own. Jac managed to knock him off the board egde behind the fish goal, but he did score 10 of my VPs. The 3" melee is super useful vs Fish, but as they weren't counter attacking everything it made the momentum rolls quite close most turns.

At 12-10 it was a decent close game. I'd love to try Grange against Shark to see whether Bernard's one-man VP machine is needed to keep up with them, but I did feel I was missing the scrum control and easy momentum generation Grange brings, so I wonder if Grange can compete. I get to 8VP really quickly, but then struggled to pin them down enough to finish the game (plus Jackstraw missing that Tackle was pretty brutal!)

I've now played all the models I'm bothered about (no interest in Bushel) and I really like the guild. Assuming (and from what some people say its a big assumption) they will have a union model worth taking, the other 8 in my tournament 9 will be; Grange, Bernard, Buckwheat, Windle, Tater, Millstone, Harrow, Jackstraw. That said, even without union, I can see Peck as a decent swap in for Brewers and I'm not sure who I'd drop from each captain's line up to add in the union model.

Cheerio,

Ben

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Bushel looks on paper like a decent scorer - sure she's not got built in threat, but I'm Open and Cabbage Punt will see her get goals in weird ways (especially combined with Grange's Pass bonus). I think if I was playing them I would keep her over Jackstraw just because that guy looks hard to setup for the dream goal. Especially in a Planter team (Grange) as she'll get her 4 INF. But I can't wait to field test. 

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With the caveat that I haven't tried her yet, I have a really hard time seeing anything to like in Bushel. She's got no momentous dodges, and her only way to buy a dodge is with I'm Open. Seems to me she's not going to contribute to the team as much as most others who could fill the slot.

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58 minutes ago, EpicChris said:

Bushel looks on paper like a decent scorer - sure she's not got built in threat, but I'm Open and Cabbage Punt will see her get goals in weird ways (especially combined with Grange's Pass bonus). I think if I was playing them I would keep her over Jackstraw just because that guy looks hard to setup for the dream goal. Especially in a Planter team (Grange) as she'll get her 4 INF. But I can't wait to field test. 

I'm not saying she doesn't seem like a decent scorer. I'm just not interested in a scorer. It's just not how I enjoy to play the game. I like an opportunistic goal scorer with a low opportunity cost (so a player that does something else mainly who can pop up with a goal when required, like Fillet or S2 Shank, or a mascot that provides a decent goal threat) so I'll use Buckwheat. My primary strategy is going to be about managing a brawl and getting takeouts (as that's how I enjoy the game best), so Bushel is quite a big cost to that strategy as a reaper who can't damage people.

Cole likes this

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MOM DMG on 1? But yeah, the fun thing about this game is finding a list that works for you. It's why I despair at some of the 'X is rubbish' comments. X may be rubbish for you, but it doesn't mean X is actually rubbish to everyone. Except Season 2 Harry - he really was rubbish to everyone. Jeez.

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4 minutes ago, EpicChris said:

MOM DMG on 1? But yeah, the fun thing about this game is finding a list that works for you. It's why I despair at some of the 'X is rubbish' comments. X may be rubbish for you, but it doesn't mean X is actually rubbish to everyone. Except Season 2 Harry - he really was rubbish to everyone. Jeez.

I think especially in a team like Farmers with some many widely diverse players. I can certainly see why others don't want to include Windle, but I want to build me team around him.

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3 hours ago, EpicChris said:

Bushel looks on paper like a decent scorer - sure she's not got built in threat, but I'm Open and Cabbage Punt will see her get goals in weird ways (especially combined with Grange's Pass bonus). I think if I was playing them I would keep her over Jackstraw just because that guy looks hard to setup for the dream goal. Especially in a Planter team (Grange) as she'll get her 4 INF. But I can't wait to field test. 

Jack is really hard to set up for a goal. He's not really there to score goals though - although he certainly can on occasion usually if there's a decent path of Harvest Markers someone else has put down (or that he put down at the end of the last turn - into first activation next turn...) 

He does a few useful things, but I find him kind of hard to get too excited about:

1) Harvest Marker Artillery- no Farmer can place Harvest Markers quite as aggressively as Jack - is that a good thing? Yes, on balance. You want to ideally have Harvest Markers where they aren't going to get destroyed, but sometimes being too cautious with them means you can't use them. If you get the timing right, the ability to use them aggressively is very useful - Thresher especially appreciates being able to get a mobile drop of Harvest Markers somewhere away from your other players. Keep in mind, you can also place Harvest Markers 'defensively' in such a way that a model won't be able to move in to engage without charging or sprinting, even if already close - this can waste your opponent's influence.

2) Placing. His teleporting can be a little awkward, but placing is a very strong ability in the game - it's occasionally going to have huge potential. 

3) Ball recovery - placing lets him get to awkward spots to pick up the ball. A long range Kick lets him clear it. T on 1 hit is good and his short playbook is good for a charge  (although his movement is abysmal and his influence cap of 3 makes this kind of niche). 

So I like him okay - he's never my stand out player, but with Thresher he's okay - supplying them all or Harvest Markers is useful to him, and another crowd out / body to get goal defence from Millstone...

I love Bushel though - she's great with Grange especially to try and abuse the pass aura for her one-two goal runs, skirting the scrum to hammer one in!

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You can read my theory craft here: 

 

Posting here as a follow up after witnessing/discussing a good 4 matches. This is still early days and once they get sorted out a little my opinion could change again. I've only experienced Grange so far. I very well could just be reeling due to unexpectedly strong victories against players who weren't super familiar with the cards. But booooooyyy howdy. This team man...

Pros/surprises:

  • Reach: So let me start by saying whenever I hear people complain about fish 2" reach my retort is always "well fish aren't generally trying to murder you. The 2" reach is mostly a defensive trait". Farmers takes that idea and throws it right out the door. Honestly I am a little shocked they produced a take-out driven team with so much reach. It just feels unfair a lot of the time. It's extremely hard to produce an effective counter attack versus a team full of beaters that don't care about 1" results.
  • Burst:The consistency of the burst damage can be simply stunning. Sure some teams and players can probably generate more burst in the right conditions, but the reliability here just seems so tremendous. Tooled up, easy crowd, and honest labor are so easy to accomplish. When several characters can delete you off the face of the earth the chance to heal between activation is heavily minimized. Grange is kind of the ultimate tool box captain while being a Corsair level bruiser in his own right. 
  • Momentum Banking: At first I felt like man teams are just going to be rolling in the momentum against these guys. Seems to me based on the limited number of games this isn't as huge of a problem as I initially expected. Problem for the other team is momentum does not necessarily translate into points against these guys due to their absurd health boxes. Sure you'll probably find yourself going second a lot of the time, but if that doesn't translate into VPs does it really matter? A lot of teams just don't have the damage output to deal with with 16-19HP models. Windle and Grange just don't drop, even from most back to back captain activations. Sure the other team will be healing, but 4hp between activation is laughable for some of these guys. Accept the weakness and use it to your advantage. It also seems to me when you are able to dictate the terms of engagement you're able to race due to your high influence pool after the first turn. 
  • Tater's counter charge is such a huge threat. He hangs back on T1 and helps prevent goals from one side while making it extremely hard for someone to come in and abuse poor Windle. Need a KD? He's got you. Need to screen? all day. Need a boat load of damage? you know it. Even if you KD your own models somehow, Chicken is there for you fam.
  • Windle dodges for days. Really no problem at all getting him into the scrum. Its difficult for folks to stay out of his threat because it's so hard to judge where he is going to wind up before his activation. "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear." 
  • Support Cast:
    • Millstone is a huge surprise to me. Once I came to the realization she essentially has a turn 1 hag legendary for 1inf I took a complete 180. She fills gaps in the team. Although Goal defense isn't super crazy, just the threat of it can be a momentum drain on striking teams. She also soaks up conditions from the back line which is extremely useful. She's Tanky with a reasonable PB as well.
    • THE CHICKEN. It seems these guys tend to get KD'd a lot and Crow just seems a little crazy at times. Activating Windle all the time is huge. When you find yourself with a glut of influence Cocky is pretty useful.
    • Harrow. never don't bring Harrow. Free harvest markers and tooled up. Crowds and healing. What more could you ask for? Dude could be tac 1 for all I care. 

As far as weaknesses are concerned:

  • First, you've got to be the initiator. Tempo Tempo Tempo. I feel like the team has a big "win more/lose more" trait. If things go your way at the start of the game things will probably continue to go your way. Conversely if you opening gambit is poor, you don't really have a great fall back plan because they do not seem to have the capability to pivot to a 2-2 game. If your opponent gets the jump on you, especially on Windle, you might have a bad time. It also seems they have a habit of getting fairly spread out at times which can result in a disaster via loss of synergy. You've really gotta restrain yourself from chasing down a winger. If certain characters get out of position it can be really hard to bring them back to relevance. 
  • Proper positioning of the harvest markers can be tricky. I think this is the skill test of the team. I've seen Windle Dodge out of big breakfast several times already. Also relying on a poorly placed token can ruin Tater's counter charge before a key activation.
  • Football is ok, but actual scoring is super tough. Bushel doesn't seem to add enough to the team to justify her spot. The scarecrow can score opportunistically, but it is telegraphed and interruptible .The donkey actually seems to be the most reliable bet if you need a clutch goal, and maybe it's just early days, but it seems harder to stop him.
  • I have the feeling Shark and Midas (mostly Shark) are going to be the key in keeping these guys in check. Shark is a little scared of Tater, but enough playing against compound teaches you how to avoid a counter charge. Millstone only lowers the odds of a goal by roughly 13%-18% and her 1" reach could actually make her a liability. At least Jackstraw can hold the ball with a good chance of a counter tackle. The movement penalties on the Legendary turns could be absolutely miserable on below average movement stats. Snared magnifies their existing weakness. 6-0 seems like dream land. I'm not sure 2-2 is realistic and I just don't think, even with the insane burst, they'd be able to go 4-1 before Fish/Alchs can shoot 3. Brisket 3 needs to be considered as well. Should the pendulum swing back to an average 4-1 game I think their stock grows, but perhaps the prevalence of goals in the meta plants them firmly in midfield (see what I did there?)

 

Thanks for reading the ramble!

Frankanelli, Ziggy and Biologeek like this

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Ok, I played a 2 games as Farmers, 1 game against Farmers and observed 1 game and have some thoughts. The donkey is insane. In my opinion by far the best mascot in the game, it is simply a regular player and not a mascot. 20" goal threat range, great playbook, free attacks, free extra jog, stoic, 4" push to any successful attack, how the hell this made past playtesting in this form? It seems to have one or two rules too much. The rest of the team seems ok, a lot of synergy which can generate insane results but eliminating one player can ruin the whole turn for Farmers. Their defensinve stats also are rather poor, when I started attacking with brewers they were dying rather easily. All that inf doesn't really scare me as most of the players that generate a lot of inf are pure support and don't do that much. But the kick stats in this team is rather impressive to be honest. All in all, great team that requires a lot from the player to reach it's full potential, but the donkey is just stupid.

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With Jackstraw's Crop Dusting, I guess it would be best to place the Harvest Markers in base contact with enemy models so it will be difficult for them to get rid off. 

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1 hour ago, naiconn1981 said:

With Jackstraw's Crop Dusting, I guess it would be best to place the Harvest Markers in base contact with enemy models so it will be difficult for them to get rid off. 

How do you figure this? All they'd need to do it move in the harvest markers direction an infinitely small amount. I find it best so far to space out the markers in directions they're not going in already, as much as possible

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46 minutes ago, Ik-tornado said:

How do you figure this? All they'd need to do it move in the harvest markers direction an infinitely small amount. I find it best so far to space out the markers in directions they're not going in already, as much as possible

Yes I guess they can sprint out and in by a small amount to declare the Harvester Markers removed.  

Like you mentioned, it best to place the markers where they have to work for it.  

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I tried out this team yesterday, against an Esther's Brewers and they were fun to play with.  I've only ever used the Masons, so took some time in adapting to the new players.

 

I used:  Thresher, Buckwheat, Tater, Jackstraw, Harrow and Millstone. 

 

Thresher is an awesome Captain due to his speed  and reach, though I still manage to miss a goal with him!  Having enjoyed playing with Mallet with his 3" melee, Thresher is even better because of his 7TAC, 5INF and momentous playbook. 

 

There are some interesting interaction between the models.  In our 2nd turn, my opponent went for a first turn goal activation, after winning initiative.  He charged V.Spigot into Harrow and now within 8" of goal range.  I decided to Counter Attack.  He picked KD and 1DMG and at this point Millstone was just within 6" of Harrow so she took the KD condition and allowed Harrow to CA, which I decided to push him an inch away from his goal threat.  So now V.Spigot cannot go for goal, instead of passing the ball back to his team mates he decided to attacked Harrow.  Following that, n my activation, Thresher was already starting 3" within V.Spigot, I had 5 influence on him, so decided to spend my first 3 influence to attack V.Spigot.  In the second attack I select Tackle but forgot V.Spigot had Close Control, which meant I had to waste my third attack for another Tackle.  With my remaining Influence I sprinted clear and went for goal.  I had no Momentum to Bonus Time and so went for the three dice kick, my return was 3,1 and 3, so Thresher failed miserably! 

 

I lost the game 12-7, Thresher eventually scored!  I had fun playing with them.  Though against a more fighting team I can see the them going down quickly, if you don't make the most out of your initial damage output, which Tater and Thresher can dish out.  I felt I played Millstone quite conservatively, but if she was Tooled Up and had Ganged Up assistance she can support the fight. 

 

I had fun blasting those Harvest Markers out, and from each turn they were quite easy to dish out, especially with Jackstraw.  With Harvest Markers about you can see how you can accumulate a lot of influence for your next turn.  

 

This line-up was definitely enjoyable to play with, I'm glad SFG gave some traits with 6" spread, so the models aren't that restrictive as where they should be. 

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Posted (edited)

Theorycrafting together a thresher team i come up with the same as you do @naiconn1981

Gives you a good inf base of 12, and if you don't use any markers on t1 (and don't lose any) you go into turn 2 with a whopping 16 inf for the reaper team. Which seems like you'd have a terrifying 9 inf on thresher and tater combined which when combined with tooled up and against the grain really adds up into a terrifying turn when you consider there's 7 inf still out there for the rest of the team

Millstone and EDIT: buckwheat become significantly more scary at TAC 6 too. 

Buckwheat in general seems player quality. Hes got a playbook that's useful for his TAC (buffed or unbuffed) and a really solid goal threat. In fact on against the grain turn it wouldn't be surprising to see him tackle + ass kick a striker to leave him with the ball and disengaged

I'm not the biggest fan of grange. hes an excellent looking captain but i'm not the biggest fan of a slow plodding 2" melee bubble of doom. i much more prefer the idea of thresher's explosive reaper play since he's quite a good striker too.

threshers def statline is pretty bad, so grange is probably the legit better captain into many m/us, i just like thresher's concept a lot more

Millstone to boost the whole team off the starting line is great too

 

Edited by Napoleon
wrote jackstraw when i meant the donkey

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@Napoleon that thresher team seems to be the standard for him - ymmv as far as mascot but the rest is steady.  Maybe sub in Peck where you expect a lot of KD, fire, etc.

my experience with Thresher is I take 3 of the 4 produced off the board.  Depends on game state after T1 but especially if I'm first, having one to fuel Thresher or Taters abilities (counter charge for Tater I mean) is usually ideal.  If thresher has knocked most of someone out T1, that 3 damage and move on to someone else has given me some wicked T2 Thresher activations.

And Grange can actually have some strong mobility.  His passing game improvement helps that a lot - you can move the ball efficiently and reposition very well.  I'll get Grange pretty deep with Tater and Windle right behind him.  The nice thing is 26 boxes on Grange is near impossible to break through for some teams - it's a TON of boxes.

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2 hours ago, Biologeek said:

@Napoleon The nice thing is 26 boxes on Grange is near impossible to break through for some teams - it's a TON of boxes.

3 Attacks with Hooper ;)

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1 hour ago, Edek said:

3 Attacks with Hooper ;)

Note the words "some teams" :P

not every team has access to maniac Brewers that obliterate the world!

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On 05/16/2017 at 3:28 AM, Biologeek said:

@Napoleon that thresher team seems to be the standard for him - ymmv as far as mascot but the rest is steady.  Maybe sub in Peck where you expect a lot of KD, fire, etc.

my experience with Thresher is I take 3 of the 4 produced off the board.  Depends on game state after T1 but especially if I'm first, having one to fuel Thresher or Taters abilities (counter charge for Tater I mean) is usually ideal.  If thresher has knocked most of someone out T1, that 3 damage and move on to someone else has given me some wicked T2 Thresher activations.

And Grange can actually have some strong mobility.  His passing game improvement helps that a lot - you can move the ball efficiently and reposition very well.  I'll get Grange pretty deep with Tater and Windle right behind him.  The nice thing is 26 boxes on Grange is near impossible to break through for some teams - it's a TON of boxes.

Grange being able to effectively field windle is pretty huge too. Windle would come at a pretty heavy cost for thresher to run. Which is a shame because i really like windle as well, 0/3 beserk tac 7 count me in

EDIT: finally got some farmers games in, i'll type up my thoughts later... but for now its safe to say i massively undervalued millstone. When i first saw millstone i thought it was meh, but then i've seen how clutch most of the abilities on the card can be. 

Okay so i got 2 games in with a thresher team -- thresher donkey tater millstone jackstraw and harrow

They work pretty well together. At base inf 12 it didnt feel like i was gimped on low harvest marker turns. That being said, i do want to see if windle is playable with thresher but my gut says no. Feels very rewarding to go into t2 with 15-16 inf.

Thresher is a little tricky but has a big pay off. My biggest difficulty is he cant be the first man in without a careful setup. Prinarily because he dies easy (lacks a good counter) and he wants to be a first or second activation for against the grain and catch the team in the pulse. If hes charged off turn 1 to use his threat range improperly his legend is a lot less impactful. That being said if jackstraw delivers some long range harvest tokens the back to back thresher activation is officially terrifying due to 9-10 attacks and a double DFT... ouch!

Tater is pretty mvp as the other reaper. On standard turns his tac 5 is very serviceable due to easy crowding and low mom results. The countercharge is good goal defense vs weaker goal scoring teams. Its nice to have it and hes a monster on feat turn. I tooled him up and charged a kd no armor harry which was like 11 damage on the charge including the scything charge thing.

Buckwheat is player tier. I do a lot of goal scoring with obulus whos a 2/6 so im pretty accepting of 2/8 for scoring. Full loaded th donkey turn 2 and turn 3. Turn 2 was a sic em charge to kd someone momentously and then mom damage them before scoring. Turn 3 was Tac 8 donkey (2 gangs and legendary) murdering a player to which my opponent looked at the card and remarked that he was surprised territorial didnt eat the marker. Tac 4 is very useable for his playbook because he gets you damage and mom and his kds very early. Hilarious as a ball holder due to kd + ass kicking counter attack which sinks a lot of 1" melee strikers

Jackstraw doesnt do much, but hes a great battery, an artillery delivery of harvest tokens and not a bad target for goal defense. Earned his spot

Millstone was the sleeper hit of the team. She did a lot without ever doing much. Tanking key conditions is surprisingly clutch since she can gather them en masse and spend 1 mom to clear it all. Its kinda like a pseudo sturdy for every team member that only works once. She tanked bleed vs fillet too multiple times. On against the grain turn her playbook becomes incredible for beating thanks to short length and Kd and mom damage. Get out is incredible

Harrow is auto include, no surprise there.

Thresher farmers is currently very interesting as my backup team. More testing to come... my biggest concern is how inflexible the team is since most you can do islike... sub someone for bushel. Most of the picks are very logical.

A windle team interests me but i dont like slow plodding grange even if hes "better". My 16 inf on good harvest turns thresher was doing amazing. Subbing anyone except tater for windle hurts, and tater is pretty important

Overall verdict is farmers are very fun. Considering them as a secondary team due to my love of threshers huge.. scythe. Theyre a weird beatdown team to compliment my weird morts

More testing required into footballing teams however...

 

 

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@Napoleongonna try to get some alchemist and fish games coming up.  I've played a couple of alchemist games and found myself able to effectively ball kill by isolating Midas and Vitriol at least somewhat.  If I got some damage on them and moved the ball away, it was hard for them to dig without dying.

against Midas in particular, he's so vulnerable to 2" melee I felt like I could keep him in bad situations.  Tater, Grange, Thresher and Windle all can reduce his health quickly.  And holy crap, once I got OKat on the floor, Windle with a damage buff destroyed him.  Consistently 4 damage (I had a crowd, helped negate the armor), win a few 6 damage wraps with Tooled up.  The 2" really, really hurt Alchs when I've played into em.

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Got in a farmers v farmers mirror match (heh, both of us wanting to try the new toys)

--

Thresher - Donkey - tater - millstone - jackstraw - harrow

v

Grange - donkey - tater - millstone - harrow - windle

i won the initiative roll and opted to kick off w/ thresher because i didn't feel like he had the tools to get a goal past thresher, even if he had bushel it's a very linear threat that has to stand inside thresher's threat range. 

he retrieved with millstone and passed the ball around, generating quite a healthy amount of mom. For the Family really makes the team quite decent at passing the ball around. i moved to take as much board control as possible, with harrow and tator positioned very aggressively after being pushed by millstone (who also pushed thresher).

Late in the turn when he had only windle left i had jackstraw fire some tokens downfield for the mighty tooled up thresher. He charged in on tater who i view as a fairly key player and knocked him down and wounded him, and added a dont fear the reaper for good measure.  As he was tough hided by grange, he didn't die but he took a solid chunk of damage

i lost the initiative due to it being a 50/50, and we both sat on quite comfortable amounts of influence each (14 for me) he opted for a donkey first activation to try to clear tater, so the donkey sprinted up (didn't have a charge lane), KD'd thresher, damaged him an ass kicked him back. He then spent his mom to stand tater up. Thresher, not willing to let that embarrassment slide shook his KD walked over and killed tater and the donkey. This is not the first double kill i've gotten with thresher, it seems to be almost par for the course

this is mostly where the game ended, as i was sitting on a mountain of momentum and my opponents attempt to kill thresher failed when grange only landed a single 4, which millstone tanked the KD. Thresher KD'd him and danced out of range. Later on windle got up to thresher and rolled two 4s on his 7 dice, preventing him from KDing thresher, who wrapped his counter for a 3+KD + < to dance out of windle's range as well

after tater charged in on grange, and buckwheat used a marker to get in on windle the game ended by concede when thresher won intiative, popped Against the Grain and killed windle and grange without even needing DFT (TAC 10 vs kd grange, TAC 12 vs KD windle)

--

A pretty short game, but thresher continues to impress me. As long as you set him up carefully getting double kills seems to be normal. My game against butchers had him kill vOx and leave the tough hide mascot on 2 boxes (as he wasn't tooled up). But the mascot died to a counter

He dominates the board, and any time you set up a back to back activation with 2 harvest markers for the double DFT he inflicts horrific damage onto the enemy. My biggest two concerns with him are

  1. How do i keep him alive, since he's really squishy and his counter attack while greatly amusing to KD someone and dodge isn't all that effective most of the time, my game vs farmers was an outlier where grange could've stood closer but chose not to. (Windle on the other hand would've been CC'd and he had no mom to clear a tater knockdown). Both of them whiffed horribly as well
  2. Getting against the grain on the majority of models you want it on (Tater, Buck and Millstone for the most part) can be kind of difficult if thresher has charged off into the sunset, because thresher wants to benefit personally as well due to TAC 9 on a 6 length playbook shenanigans

i think as my opponents get more used to him they're going to try to bait him into bad trades and delete him at a low cost, will be interesting to see how it shakes out

 

EDIT: many days later, i just wanted to append something interesting i found. There are quite a few powerful striker captains in the game, namely Midas, Skatha, fillet and pin vice that all share the exact same characteristic, 5/0 and 14 boxes. Pin vice may stand apart from the others with re-animate, but the difference is only in the timing, you DFT after reanimate rather than at any time you feel like. 

To kill these captains after a DFT all you need is a single 3 damage result, and to land 2 damage every other time. How hard is this? turns out not that hard with against the grain. The key is to never take the knockdown until you hit column 4, and take the non momentous knockdown + 2 damage (this stays on track to the goal) and to bonus time every attack you have momentum to bonus time for 10 dice w/ against the grain. Requires you to walk (not charge, charging ruins your damage output) and have a marker to DFT -- won't work if they have cover! going from 9 dice to 8 dice is a critical shift in the math

my testing methodology was to just put down the model at 11 boxes( assuming DFT) and roll five attacks, if i got momentum i bonus timed the next attack every time. Why does this work? because 9 dice has a 34.9% to hit column 4, and 10 dice has 44.1% when you're taking five attacks the only time this can come too late is on the final attack -- where its too late to take advantage of the 9 - 10 dice swing on def 4/0

in my limited testing i found a success rate of about 74%. However the sample size was quite limited so take of it what you will, but it makes me think thresher might have a surprisingly powerful move to just snipe the enemy captain w/ 4-6 influence if they do not play very carefully around not just where he is, but where he can move with two turns of movement. If they hold their captain until last it lets jackstraw fire his artillery pretty aggressively because if they go to stomp on the harvest markers to shut down DFT, it puts them firmly in threshers range

 

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