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Fermorfan

Season 3 is not for Brewers

173 posts in this topic

This is certainly true and feels amazing when you pull it off. But now Tapper gets goaded to the table edge and PintPot is on the recieving end of a gut and string and what do you do now?

I really enjoy both captains honestly, just not equally in all matchups, is all I'm saying :)

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Esters gets just as goaded as Tapper if the opponets needs to goad you. And I imagine that if you get goaded you can just go and kill the bastard :P And there some ways to work around goad, teamwork after a pass is one of them, or a barrel from stave either on the goader or on the goadee. BTW you say goad and gut n string which I think you won't find on one model, so you have an activation in the meantime to do something.

I'm trying to make Esters work, but I'm struggling to justify picking her over Tapper. Also taking 2 brewer captains means you want to take 2 mascots so you have only 6 spots left on the team. I think I will be going Tapper + Scum with all the normal players for the T10.

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It's always funny when Harry Goads Tapper. Who else am I going to go after, other than the 3/1 model standing in the middle of the pitch? :D

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1 hour ago, Edek said:

Brewers are my first guild, played for a year now, played against every guild and must say that I pick Tapper over Esters against everything. The heal on her heroic was the main reason I liked her and right now I just don't see the point in Esters. If you're playing against a team dealing a lot of conditions just take Stoker and Hooper and you're good to go. My T10 is Tapper, Scum, Friday, Hooper, Mash, Pint Pot, oSpigot, vSpigot, Stave, Stoker, and the core of the team on the field is Tapper, Scum, Hooper, Spigot, Friday and the last one depends on the opponent. Esters just doesn't deal any dmg, she wants a lot of inf and doesn't give that much, and apart from her Legendary Turn you can get the same (or better) buffs in a Tapper team.

  I liked Esters in S2 as well as I felt that it was almost 2 turns sometimes before Tapper got into the fight and Esters was able to buff that speed, plus heal.  However, I agree with you, there were a lot of times she felt pretty INF inefficient.  She could be a beater, but more often than not I was disappointed in her ability to delete models, which is ok since that wasn't her point.  It certainly felt like she was something of a dead weight after the scrum was started though and the AOEs weren't as useful for control.  Like, sure, I can target those two models and light them on fire maybe, or I can spend the 2 INF on attacks that get me momentum.  So....

  The S3 initiative momentum was a nice buff to Tapper.  Not enough to compensate for the Old Jakes nerf, but still kind of nice.  It means Spigot can activate early on a KD model if possible and still get to use his heroic.  Really, that initiative loss = 1 momentum was a buff for the heroic intensive Brewers in general.  Hooper can actually activate first now with all 7 TAC. Tapper can OJ before the charge.  Stuff like that.

  Still feel like they're struggling though.  

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It feels like everyone thinks that the brewers don't have the first activation. It's true that it's a bit more difficult that way, but when you start with Tapper you set up so much much for the whole team that it's even hard to describe.

As for the Old Jakes nerf, Tapper used to insane when he could go first and kill almost everyone from full health in 1 activation. Now with Scum nearby he effectively loses 1 attack when comparing with the S2 Tapper, but has a bit better playbook (you can try to trigger CA with a charge attack more often than in S2). He now struggles to get a take out on his own, but once you think of him as a playmaker for the true beaters and support with OJ (the range buff in S3 is really nice), CA and MT then he is still amazing. And with the farmers coming out soon I believe that a Tapper led team will be even more competetive.

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Esters needs an extra something since the heal is gone. Considering her Character Plays are AOEs, at least let her Empowered Voice +1 damage apply to Character Plays as well, and if not giving her Momentous Inspiration (which wouldn't be too much to ask for, in my opinion), maybe make at least her own Character Plays generate momentum.

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On a lighter note, Friday managed to pick up 14 points in one game with a 6 point activation on turn 1 followed by a goal turn 2 and another as the first activation of turn 3..

She played in all but one of my seven games, mainly because I was wanting to try out the vSpigot poised counter attack / Balls Gone / free snapshot goal with Mash (under Harrys aura) to score in my opponents turn.. Probably would have worked if the guys dice were better..

Lastly, while I would like to give Friday my player of the tournament award, this has to go to "The Cat" for not only eating that annoying munchkin Greede (if I ever had chance to affect the story fluff then this would be what I'd do *cough* @Sherwin *cough*) but he also took down the master Butcher (captain Ox) himself from around half health during his legendary turn..

Honestly, don't think Brewers have a problem, I just need to not drink for three days straight while playing.. and with that said, it's off to the pub..

 

#saveAmber

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@Redmaw that is awesome! :D

I really always miss Friday and Scum whe I'm not playing them; can't say I've ever had Friday score 14 points though (12 is my current record I think). I'll be raising one for the lass this evening at any rate.

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WOW, someone picked Ox againt brewers in a competetive game? Why? :P 

As for Friday, in S3 i started to use her to kill the ball and it has been working great. DED 5+ ARM 1 in cover is way too much for a lot of models even the best strikers struggle to get the ball off her. Another trick for Friday very soon will be using Dirty Knives instead of KD against Farmers (Millstone's instead global sturdy). In my one game against Farmers didn't even pick the KD result (unless it was from a wrap from Tapper) thanks to DK.

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18 minutes ago, Edek said:

As for Friday, in S3 i started to use her to kill the ball and it has been working great. DED 5+ ARM 1 in cover is way too much for a lot of models even the best strikers struggle to get the ball off her. Another trick for Friday very soon will be using Dirty Knives instead of KD against Farmers (Millstone's instead global sturdy). In my one game against Farmers didn't even pick the KD result (unless it was from a wrap from Tapper) thanks to DK.

Yeah, she caused the death of both Velocity and Mist in the two games I recieved the ball by defensive stanceing while in range of Spigs (first guy forgot it was a thing, the second didn't think she would get the boost from vSpigs)..

Also, Dirty Knives is the reason Friday almost always gets a full stack of influence from me.. If I think she can score I tend to save her till later in the turn, otherwise she can fairly reliably drop two opposing players Defence for Tapper, Hooper (or the cat apparently) to finish off.. 

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3 hours ago, Atilla_the_Nun said:

This is certainly true and feels amazing when you pull it off. But now Tapper gets goaded to the table edge and PintPot is on the recieving end of a gut and string and what do you do now?

I really enjoy both captains honestly, just not equally in all matchups, is all I'm saying :)

Or better yet, Shark goes in, scores a goal, then activates his legendary, so that you have no player agency for the rest of the turn.   Sure, you can sprint 3 inches, but your opponent was smart enough to keep everyone at least 5 inches away from you. 

They get all the agency, we lose all the agency, but don't fret, Steamforged is happy with that balance....and their happiness is of high import.

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5 minutes ago, Dozer said:

Or better yet, Shark goes in, scores a goal, then activates his legendary, so that you have no player agency for the rest of the turn.   Sure, you can sprint 3 inches, but your opponent was smart enough to keep everyone at least 5 inches away from you. 

Yeah.. I suppose this happens way more often than any of us like. Esters is equally screwed in this situation as Tapper though, so not really a reason to play one or the other. 

But, just the other day in our local big league I witnessed another brewers player still score with Friday after the fish dude did just this, closing out the game for him. It was a huge middle finger to Shark and his mean stuff and everyone was really cheered by it. Well, most of us anyway. Good times! :D 

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The Shark legendary is painful, but you can still use Spigots heroic to speed everyone up, you dodge after a pass and you can use Marked Target as well. And most important, Tapper's 2" melee gives a chance to counter-attack Shark and KD him after the Tackle.

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35 minutes ago, Edek said:

The Shark legendary is painful, but you can still use Spigots heroic to speed everyone up, you dodge after a pass and you can use Marked Target as well. And most important, Tapper's 2" melee gives a chance to counter-attack Shark and KD him after the Tackle.

the biggest issue with even considering teamwork plays with passing vs fish (especially after shark legendary) is how do you have the ball? maybe shark just scored and you kicked it out to one of your guys so maybe you get to do this once but then your almost certainly giving it back to them. I still have no idea where to put people where sakana or siren aren't just taking it even after shark goes. 

every good shark player is going to ether use tapper to bounce off of meaning you counter attack does nothing or just avoid him entirely and find your 1" melee guys to abuse. because there all the same poor defense there is very little reason for them to even risk dealing with Tapper unless the just need the boost to get by him and they only need one hit to get past and 2 hits he's really gone.

 

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1 hour ago, Edek said:

The Shark legendary is painful, but you can still use Spigots heroic to speed everyone up, you dodge after a pass and you can use Marked Target as well. And most important, Tapper's 2" melee gives a chance to counter-attack Shark and KD him after the Tackle.

 

What MP do you use for Spigot's Time's Called?  You don't have any because your opponent had the ball and scored in the first round of the game.  You can use Marked Target, that is true, as long as you haven't activated Tapper yet and you're targeting something with a low enough defense to get hit by it.  

 

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WOW, moment, are you saying that people use Shark's legendary in the FIRST turn? What's the point? If the opponent uses the legendary in the first I'm a happy man. Also, if the Fish player is scoring that means he is receiving so I have the last activation and can get some momentum with a Friday activation. If the Fish player is kicking then I put the ball on Mash 11" away from the Kicking player, or on Friday in cover near Spigot and Barrel Lob the Kicker away with Stave.

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If Shark is using it first turn, it means that he probably scored second or third activation and legendaried your team 6'' from the goal which means the scrum is less than 12'' from the goal. Sure, it's done and over with, but it's still not a great position.  It was doable in S2 because you might could get him into the scrum and kill him. I was usually able to.  In S3, he's probably doing it that early because he has knee slider.  

I'm also curious how many activations you're using to get the ball to a safe place.  Half the time, Siren kicks off.  You get the ball, and she Seduces it back in.  If Stave's your guy to take her down, you need a 4 on two dice.  Nobody likes making kicks on those odds, and when it fails, it's rough.  I'm not saying it isn't a sound plan, or that you're even wrong.  I naturally type passive aggressively these days.  It's American thing every four years.  I'm just curious about some of what you're saying.  

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To be honest, if it's Siren kicking the ball, I would put the ball on the cat in the first activation. With a 1/4" kick she needs to get real close if she wants the cat to pass to her. If she goes within 4" of the cat then she is in the middle of your team, and still the pass is not a sure thing. And since the ball is with the brewers she can't boost it. I'm ok with keeping the ball on the cat to the last activation as the Fish can't get any momentum unless Siren goes in, if she backs out then I can start passing around.

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20 minutes ago, Edek said:

To be honest, if it's Siren kicking the ball, I would put the ball on the cat in the first activation. With a 1/4" kick she needs to get real close if she wants the cat to pass to her. If she goes within 4" of the cat then she is in the middle of your team, and still the pass is not a sure thing. And since the ball is with the brewers she can't boost it. I'm ok with keeping the ball on the cat to the last activation as the Fish can't get any momentum unless Siren goes in, if she backs out then I can start passing around.

That seems to be a really sound strategy @Edek. I'm definitely going to try it. Last time when my fish playing friend kicked off to me with Siren I was able to grab the ball with Tapper, dodge him off the pass and annihilate her, but that was all down to a lucky ball scatter. Your plan seems way better any day

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yes its a perfectly reasonable strategy. the real question is what are the shark players your playing doing?  there's no reason to kick off with any one other then shark. there is also no reason to receive as shark can basically just go take the ball and score no matter who you get the ball to. this is the case unless a scatter really goes poorly for him. do they use terrain like obstructions to get the kick off stuck or kick it behind a forest so the brewers have a real hard time even getting to it? the  kicking team chooses there side I just can not see how they are not taking advantage of it. also if they get knee slider he can steel the ball score and get away which is just insane. I agree if there using the legendary super early its not  always a bad thing but  if its done right and your down 8/0 after turn one I am not sure what the answer is.

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On 5/15/2017 at 10:03 AM, Dozer said:

Or better yet, Shark goes in, scores a goal, then activates his legendary, so that you have no player agency for the rest of the turn.   Sure, you can sprint 3 inches, but your opponent was smart enough to keep everyone at least 5 inches away from you. 

They get all the agency, we lose all the agency, but don't fret, Steamforged is happy with that balance....and their happiness is of high import.

Unless shark has knee slider, you can still get to him. Kick the ball out, pass it around to generate MP, send in fully loaded tapper after he passes the ball to make a 4inch dodge. Every game I have played into shark has started 4-2 or 0-0 after first turn. I can either get it to mash and hold it, or I give the ball to tapper and go for the KD. The shark player will then typically have 2-3 momentum at the end of their goal run. Kick the ball out and proceed with the rest of your turn creating momentum and then last activation go in with tapper. Shark will normally be left with 4-7 boxes depending on when you get CA going. This will give you a even or +1 advantage on the roll for next turn. Finish off shark proceed to middle of board and dominate the area. 

 

Edit: Also, player skill has a lot to do with what Steamforged considers balanced i'm pretty sure.

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Yeah, the cat seems like the best bet right now for hanging onto the ball, I agree.  Friday within 5'' of spigot is also a decent idea, but if Siren makes that hit, Friday's kick is pretty glorious for her.

 

I also don't know that I expect Shark to go for an early activation goal without knee slider.  Maybe.  Idk.  Siren's also a good kickoff target.  If she gets it, kicks it back to shark, it's a little easier for him to get rolling with a momentum in the bank already.  I'm not a fish player.  Kinda.  I own them.  I'm going to play them some so I can understand these bastards from the inside out like an insidious mole, but I haven't started yet because it feels dirty and immoral inside.

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10 hours ago, Edek said:

WOW, moment, are you saying that people use Shark's legendary in the FIRST turn? What's the point? If the opponent uses the legendary in the first I'm a happy man. Also, if the Fish player is scoring that means he is receiving so I have the last activation and can get some momentum with a Friday activation. If the Fish player is kicking then I put the ball on Mash 11" away from the Kicking player, or on Friday in cover near Spigot and Barrel Lob the Kicker away with Stave.

Actually, the normal turn of events starts with Shark kicking, receiver tries desperately to get the ball out of the way, Shark takes it anyway, legendaries, and scores first Fish activation. 

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Why is nobody playing Esters into Fish?

She seems a good Choice against Sirens plays and can buff Speed against Sharks legendary. 

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8 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Why is nobody playing Esters into Fish?

She seems a good Choice against Sirens plays and can buff Speed against Sharks legendary. 

1" melee.. it just makes shark hit her once before he takes the ball away from her. still don't know why people take her ever, even more so vs fish were the team is 2"melee. 

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