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Fermorfan

Season 3 is not for Brewers

173 posts in this topic
4 minutes ago, kegslayer13 said:

so your saying to take mash solely on the premise that the shark payer will kick to that side and the ball will skater so that mash can retrieve it and get far enough away-  

Mash on one side of the pitch, the cat next to him. Spigot, Tapper, Hooper, in the middle. Friday or vet spigot (your choice) on the other side. Now barring an incredible kick you can get the ball from almost anywhere. In the middle or to mash's side it gets kick to him and you can resume plan A, if not then run and retrieve kick to space and pray.... Again not saying easy, but at least make them spend a lot of resources to get a goal only maybe one momentum.

10 minutes ago, kegslayer13 said:

 

also capturing and killing shark usually is not an issue but when he comes back in and legendry's your usually in a bad way as a brewer

 This is where you have to get creative by using your passing and times called to actually get to shark after legendary. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Frankanelli said:

I've played this match-up 15+ times and i honestly do not see how brewers handle it without unforced errors or catastrophic dice on the part of the Fish player.  (or a huge disparity between players skill)

I'm not exaggerating when I say I've played this match up 100+ times against a similar skilled opponent with a 50/50 win ratio. 

You won't stop Shark scoring from kick off, but that doesn't mean the game is lost.

jmrhode1 likes this

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If Mash is getting the ball away from Shark's ridiculous kick off threat, I firmly believe that the fish player kicked off wrong.  And even if Shark has to blow the whole 6 stack for a goal, he is still getting what he wants.  Oh and hag basically makes him go anywhere and have the inf to still do what he wants. I'm not saying that I think its theoretically bad, I'm saying I've seen it on the pitch multiple times, and Mash is not the answer to Shark.  

Also, if Shark has fast ground to return to the pitch with then taking him out doesn't do much to help win the race.  Its so important that Shark should be choosing the table side and kicking off. It makes removing him from the table basically a trivial nuisance for the fish player. 

I think that Stave is better in that match-up honestly.  Its hard for Fish to work their set ups as Stave is great at activation disruption even through the speed debuff.  

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1 minute ago, CurlyPaul said:

I'm not exaggerating when I say I've played this match up 100+ times against a similar skilled opponent with a 50/50 win ratio. 

You are the best Brewers player alive then dude.  Even all the stat compiling sites show the brutally low winrate brewers have into fish.  Its definitely not balanced. 

Isante and Jedianakinsolo like this

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Just now, Frankanelli said:

You are the best Brewers player alive then dude.  Even all the stat compiling sites show the brutally low winrate brewers have into fish.  Its definitely not balanced. 

It's tough, but not unwinnable. I do not expect every team to be exactly balanced against every other team though, part of the fun for me is figuring out how to win anyway. 

Unless Shark has knee slider, his legendary will not save him, and I don't kill him straight away - leave him on 1 health and surrounded for as many turns as I dare. 

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Just now, CurlyPaul said:

Unless Shark has knee slider, his legendary will not save him, and I don't kill him straight away - leave him on 1 health and surrounded for as many turns as I dare. 

I agree that you want to keep him swamped... but how? if he starts his turn in melee with even 2 people he will dodge out.  If the hag is their she will free him.  If he's totally swamped he will just feat and die so that the rest of his team has free reign. And if you are swamping him but not killing him then how are you earning points? 

I agree that its not a lock.  There have been times where 1" more of separation between someone and oSiren would have stopped a goal for a turn.  There have been times where Tapper has had a 6pt activation but scoring the goal was actually a mistake.  There have been alot of times where small changes in the Brewers play would have bought time.  But it also feels like the Brewers player needs to play perfect and even then it would only buy time, not save the game.  There have been plenty of turn where the fish dont get their early goal, but still manage to pull one out late in a turn.  I think there is a way to buy enough time to turn the tables.  But I dont think its anywhere near 50/50.  I dont think it can even see 50/50 with a pair of binoculars. 

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I won a small Musecon Qualifier with Brewers two weekends ago beating our Fishermen in the final round.  I had to resort to extreme ball killing tactics in order to make it happen aka Mash was sitting behind the goal line, in my corner of the board for a turn or two keeping the ball out of play.

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I think Shark is a special case because of his Legendary, G&S, DD, and 6 TAC.. I have beaten a few Shark players (even in tourney), however, I have a friend who is a particularly good Fish player and I've beaten him once...in fact, I believe I am the only person to beat him, that I am aware of, with his Shark Fish at least (he's lost with other line-ups). And that was one out of, I don't know how many games, and this win was also in Season 2..   

I too believe it has a lot to do with skill and style, but it can be frustrating with the Brewers. Good thing we can always have a pint or two. :)

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45 minutes ago, Isante said:

I won a small Musecon Qualifier with Brewers two weekends ago beating our Fishermen in the final round.  I had to resort to extreme ball killing tactics in order to make it happen aka Mash was sitting behind the goal line, in my corner of the board for a turn or two keeping the ball out of play.

It also helps that you're 100% a much better player than the other guy. As much as I like the other player, I'd say his skill level in this game, while improving and probably better than mine right now, he's fighting an uphill battle against you with any lineup.

wrenwood, Isante and VanV like this

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1 hour ago, Frankanelli said:

If Mash is getting the ball away from Shark's ridiculous kick off threat.....

He might not be getting it all the way out of threat but making him spend the extra 2 influence to cast quick foot could be the thing that only nets the fish player 2 momentum instead of 4. It is not always about stopping something from happening but dictating on what terms it will happen on. If hag is in their line up to make it trivial to get the ball, then that gives you an activation to somewhat control or modify the situation.  

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I agree that it changes the resources but I sort of don't see why that matters so much.  Shark only wants the goal.  He runs low on MP already.  Especially on that first turn, he only needs 2 mp to get the job done.  I grant you that letting Shark score last activation of 1 and also generating enough mp to go first turn 2 is a huge bonus to the Fish team.  Stopping that from happening is probably step one to winning the matchup. But its definitely not the play that buries shark.  And i think the core of my confusion is why playing keepaway is Mash's job? just give the ball to the cat and take a player that's doing more.  Mash seems to make the most of his rules when he's supporting the scrum and looking for the ball.  Not sure if using him purely for 1 rule on his card is maximizing efficiency.  

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That is a fair point. Shark can however score a goal and be at 4-5 momentum pretty trivially if the brewer player isn't smart about their setup and ball retrieval. I give the ball to Mash to make the Shark player think twice about spending ALL of their resources for such a small reward compared to another player. If the ball is successfully kicked to Mash then he can dodge to make it even more difficult for shark, or hold on to it for the counter attack. Mash is not a necessity in the scrum against fish unless you are playing corsair. 

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On 4/26/2017 at 9:44 AM, Isante said:

I won a small Musecon Qualifier with Brewers two weekends ago beating our Fishermen in the final round.  I had to resort to extreme ball killing tactics in order to make it happen aka Mash was sitting behind the goal line, in my corner of the board for a turn or two keeping the ball out of play.

How did you gain momentum, w/ Mash behind your own goal line w/ the ball? Or did you just not need it?

Woldie likes this

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16 hours ago, landstander said:

How did you gain momentum, w/ Mash behind your own goal line w/ the ball? Or did you just not need it?

I didn't gain momentum for about a turn and a half but I didn't really need it.

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You know what I think would really help brewers at the moment?

A really solid goalkeeper.

Our main problems are with mobile scoring teams and that would help so much

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You mean vStave?

Buffed up defense, Lob Barrel @ 8", Rush Keeper, Goal Defense. :P Happy days.

Maybe even GM, cause he already was pretty well-fed, and all the goalies get double rations - ask Compound. ;) 

Lord Antoine and SCArmoury like this

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The Brewers' main problem is that they shine in the late game, as Steamforged intended them to do. I do not, however, think "late game" was originally intended to be Turn 3.

Ay3z1k and wrenwood like this

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The big issues I am seeing is that our player agency can easily be negated by fast, high defense teams.  

Anyone know why they decided Alchemists, who have a striker who can sprint 11 inches and has a 2 inch melee zone, needed a speed buff from Lure of Gold?  Was that really needed?  Other games tend to give speed buff abilities to really slow forces to offset the huge disadvantage of going really slow.   

Season 3 makes no sense.......

Thinking of quitting this game for a while.....

 

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33 minutes ago, Dozer said:

The big issues I am seeing is that our player agency can easily be negated by fast, high defense teams.  

Anyone know why they decided Alchemists, who have a striker who can sprint 11 inches and has a 2 inch melee zone, needed a speed buff from Lure of Gold?  Was that really needed?  Other games tend to give speed buff abilities to really slow forces to offset the huge disadvantage of going really slow.   

Season 3 makes no sense.......

Thinking of quitting this game for a while.....

 

Instead of Marked Target, maybe Tapper could have had 'Lure of Ale' or 'Promise of Spirits' to make his squad put in the extra effort for a +2/+2 movement. Times Called and Lure of Ale stack to make a swift striker indeed!

And I'm sure even Stave would wheez his way up the pitch for an extra pint or two.;)

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I'm with Csjarret, the Brewers could benefit from a "quality" goalkeeper.  Something a tad better than what we've seen from goalkeepers to date, in order to make up for our incredibly slow moving, no movement having, shenanigans type team...which it seems almost every other team has.  vStave would be cool as a goalkeeper if he had some sort of lob barrel ability as a reaction to any non-friendly player ending a movement within 6 or 8 inches of his melee zone.

 

naiconn1981 likes this

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10 hours ago, GoonieLaw said:

 vStave would be cool as a goalkeeper if he had some sort of lob barrel ability as a reaction to any non-friendly player ending a movement within 6 or 8 inches of his melee zone.

vStave with Glutinous Mass and Goal Defence may be viable but still probably wouldn't make my nine..

To be honest, you have one of these topics in every guild forum, the sky isn't falling..

Totes McAwesome likes this

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1 hour ago, Redmaw said:

vStave with Glutinous Mass and Goal Defence may be viable but still probably wouldn't make my nine..

To be honest, you have one of these topics in every guild forum, the sky isn't falling..

Don't try and be sensible and reasoned. This is a public forum a place designed for over reaction and negative group think. 

Selfy and Redmaw like this

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