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JacctheInsomniac

Theory Concepts

So @malladin.ben made a pretty cool post about a vetBoiler captain model (check it out) which got me rethinking one or two (three actually) of my own Hunter concepts and as he shared his template I thought it might be cool to use it to help visualize them. So, figured I'd drop them here and see what everyone thinks of them. Would you drop them into a casual game for playtesting or are they way overboard before they even hit the pitch Interested in just how much I've learned about this game's design since their very first iterations. I haven't gotten around to playtesting any of them as I always end up playing the models that are real to get better with them and stop losing horribly in every matchup.

As a sidenote, I'd prefer to get feedback in the vein of "if these existed," rather than "these will never exist and here's why." I'm well aware. I just like designing things for any game I play. You should get a look at my custom League Champion concepts, or Magic Cards. I'm not flaunting this as something that Steamforged should do or saying that my designs are better than theirs. I just like designing. Anyway...

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Navo - Sun's Wrath

Melee Zone - 1”

Size - 30mm
Eisnoran, Human, Male, Winger

MOV

TAC

KICK

DEF

ARM

INF

6”/8”

0

2/4"

5+

0

2/4

 

<

 

<<

 

1

<

 

GB

               
                             

1

 

1

 

2

 

3

               

Character Plays

COST

RNG

ZONE

SUSTAIN

Tracker: This model immediately declares an attack against the target enemy model and gains [+6] TAC for the duration of the attack.

2

4”

-

-

Maim: Target Enemy model suffers the snared and bleed conditions.

GB

P

-

-

Tripcord: Target Enemy model loses possession of the ball-marker. You  may re-roll the scatter

GB

P

-

-

Character Traits

Assist [Dene]

When making an Attack against an enemy model engaged by the named model, this model gains [+1] TAC and [+1] DMG to Playbook damage results.

 

Keen Eyes

This model gains [+1] to the dice pool on character plays.

 

Light Footed

When this model makes an Advance, it ignores the MOV penalty for rough-ground.

 

Nature’s Blessing

Once per turn during its activation, this model may choose a piece of forest terrain within [4”]. This model may be placed anywhere within the chosen forest terrain.

Hit Points

       

+

       

10

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Dene - Direwolf Alpha
Melee Zone - 2”
Size - 40mm
Eisnoran, Animal, Winger

MOV

TAC

KICK

DEF

ARM

INF

4”/6”

6

2/4"

4+

0

1/3

Playbook

   

>>

 

1

 

KD

     

1

*

       
                             

>

 

T

 

GB

 

1

 

2

 

2

>

       

Character Plays

COST

RNG

ZONE

SUSTAIN

Singled Out: Friendly models gain [+2] TAC against target enemy model.
 

GB

4”

-

🗸

Defend the Ground: While within this Ongoing-effect AOE, friendly Guild models may use Defensive Stance without spending MP. 1 4” 3" AOE -
         

Character Traits

Isolated Target

This model gains [+1] DMG to Playbook damage results while targeting an enemy model suffering the snared condition.

 

Light Footed

When this model makes an Advance, it ignores the MOV penalty for rough-ground.

 

Pack Hunter

Once per turn when an enemy model within [8"] suffers either the Snared or Bleed conditions, except while making an advance, if this model is not engaged it may immediately make a charge targeting the enemy model.

 

Smell Blood

This model gains [+0”/+2”] MOV when it performs a Charge against an enemy model suffering the bleed condition. When this model makes an Attack against an enemy model suffering the bleed condition, it gains [+1] DMG to Playbook damage results against that model.

Hit Points

           

+

     
     

14

           

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Keokuk - The Hermit
Melee Zone - 2”
Size - 40mm
Eisnoran, Human, Female, Defensive Midfielder

MOV

TAC

KICK

DEF

ARM

INF

4”/6”

5

4/4"

3+

2

1/3

Playbook

1

 

T

 

2

 

>>

 

2

KD

           
                             

>

 

1

 

KD

 

GB

 

3

           

Character Plays

COST

RNG

ZONE

SUSTAIN

Drag: Target enemy model suffers a 6” Push directly towards this model.

2/GB

6”

-

-

Log Trap: Place a friendly 40mm tripwire-marker then remove all other friendly tripwire-markers from the pitch. When an enemy model moves within 1” of a friendly tripwire-marker that model immediately suffers [3] DMG and the knockdown condition and the tripwire-marker is removed.

3

2”

-

-

Character Traits

Mud Concealer

While within rough-ground this model gains [+1] ARM.

 

Skilled Within Shadows

When this model targets an enemy model that is benefiting from cover with an attack this model gains [+2] TAC for the duration of the attack.

 

Stranglehold

Once per turn, when an enemy model ends a dodge that causes it to leave this model’s melee zone, this model may make a parting blow targeting the enemy model.

 

Heroic Play

Nature’s Cloak

Place a [3”] AOE over the centre of this model. This AOE is forest terrain. This AOE is removed in the End Phase.

Hit Points

         

+

       
  12  

 

           

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I see some things:

-I don't like the Tracker CP, too much random. You are already paying 2 INF for an Attack, forcing you to also make a TN test to enable it is too much cost. I think it would be better in this way:

Tracker (CST 2, RNG S): Choose an enemy model within [4"] of this model. This model immediately declares an attack against the chosen enemy model and gains [+6] TAC for the duration of the attack.

Other thing you have to explain is how other models interact with this CP. Do you apply Ganging Up and Crowded Out modifiers?

-I would change the Keokuk's Nature's Cloak heroic play:

Nature's Cloak: Place a [3"] AOE in contact with this model. This AOE is forest terrain. This AOE is removed in the End Phase.

With this, you expand its range a little, you can use the forest to block some LOS but you lose the insta-cover (at least if Keokuk doesn't move later inside the forest). I think it's a bit more interesting.

-Dene's Pack Hunter trait is too much powerful. You are allowing an out of its activation Charge. Counter Charge allows a Charge as a reaction, but only if the enemy wants. Pack Hunter does it only if a friendly model snares or bleeds someone (a very easy exploit to Hunters). For a mascot, this trait would be awesome, very thematic, but for a player it's too much brutal. Sorry if I can't express correctly my point.

-Keokuk's Log Trap is too much expensive. You are paying 3 INF for a situational 3 DMG and a KD condition. I think 2 INF is better.

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So to work this out, you want to be able to make an attack that costs two influence, with no ability to counter it, that has TAC 6 on a four column playbook, that can snare and bleed a target, then trigger a free charge from another model (that has a 2" melee, making its attack indefensible to half the models in the game) that gets +2 to damage results (which also happens to now be at -1 DEF), which if it wraps can cause 4 DMG, inflict Singled out and gain 2 momentum.

You could then charge, rolling 14 dice against someone suffering -1 DEF causing +1 DMG to playbook damage results with a playbook only four columns long, causing up to 14 points of damage and four momentum.

For most of the models in the game that's them dead in one activation for only 4 inf. Not even Fillet is that dangerous.

Sorry, but that's not reasonable.

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1 hour ago, Petraites said:

I see some things:

-I don't like the Tracker CP, too much random. You are already paying 2 INF for an Attack, forcing you to also make a TN test to enable it is too much cost. I think it would be better in this way:

Tracker (CST 2, RNG S): Choose an enemy model within [4"] of this model. This model immediately declares an attack against the chosen enemy model and gains [+6] TAC for the duration of the attack.

Other thing you have to explain is how other models interact with this CP. Do you apply Ganging Up and Crowded Out modifiers?

-I would change the Keokuk's Nature's Cloak heroic play:

Nature's Cloak: Place a [3"] AOE in contact with this model. This AOE is forest terrain. This AOE is removed in the End Phase.

With this, you expand its range a little, you can use the forest to block some LOS but you lose the insta-cover (at least if Keokuk doesn't move later inside the forest). I think it's a bit more interesting.

-Dene's Pack Hunter trait is too much powerful. You are allowing an out of its activation Charge. Counter Charge allows a Charge as a reaction, but only if the enemy wants. Pack Hunter does it only if a friendly model snares or bleeds someone (a very easy exploit to Hunters). For a mascot, this trait would be awesome, very thematic, but for a player it's too much brutal. Sorry if I can't express correctly my point.

-Keokuk's Log Trap is too much expensive. You are paying 3 INF for a situational 3 DMG and a KD condition. I think 2 INF is better.

Being in base to base contact with a forest is still counted as being within so you would get cover and be in rough ground.

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1 hour ago, Henry said:

So to work this out, you want to be able to make an attack that costs two influence, with no ability to counter it, that has TAC 6 on a four column playbook, that can snare and bleed a target, then trigger a free charge from another model (that has a 2" melee, making its attack indefensible to half the models in the game) that gets +2 to damage results (which also happens to now be at -1 DEF), which if it wraps can cause 4 DMG, inflict Singled out and gain 2 momentum.

You could then charge, rolling 14 dice against someone suffering -1 DEF causing +1 DMG to playbook damage results with a playbook only four columns long, causing up to 14 points of damage and four momentum.

For most of the models in the game that's them dead in one activation for only 4 inf. Not even Fillet is that dangerous.

Sorry, but that's not reasonable.

More eloquent and insightful than any attempt I'd make to express these ideas. 

I guess now we know why Jacc is so relentlessly down on the current Hunters!

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1 hour ago, Henry said:

So to work this out, you want to be able to make an attack that costs two influence, with no ability to counter it, that has TAC 6 on a four column playbook, that can snare and bleed a target, then trigger a free charge from another model (that has a 2" melee, making its attack indefensible to half the models in the game) that gets +2 to damage results (which also happens to now be at -1 DEF), which if it wraps can cause 4 DMG, inflict Singled out and gain 2 momentum.

You could then charge, rolling 14 dice against someone suffering -1 DEF causing +1 DMG to playbook damage results with a playbook only four columns long, causing up to 14 points of damage and four momentum.

For most of the models in the game that's them dead in one activation for only 4 inf. Not even Fillet is that dangerous.

Sorry, but that's not reasonable.

The free charge is too strong.

If Navo charges, even with all these assumptions, you will only get 8 dice (4 for charging, + 2 for Singled Out + 1 for Gang Up from Dene +1 for Assist (Dene)), not 14.

PD: Try to translate "Nabo" from spanish. I can't take seriously this player, XD.

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Of course, a TAC 0 player is a new concept so the most the second attack would be is 10 dice. That still chuffing rediculous.

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3 hours ago, Henry said:

So to work this out, you want to be able to make an attack that costs two influence, with no ability to counter it, that has TAC 6 on a four column playbook, that can snare and bleed a target, then trigger a free charge from another model (that has a 2" melee, making its attack indefensible to half the models in the game) that gets +2 to damage results (which also happens to now be at -1 DEF), which if it wraps can cause 4 DMG, inflict Singled out and gain 2 momentum.

You could then charge, rolling 14 dice against someone suffering -1 DEF causing +1 DMG to playbook damage results with a playbook only four columns long, causing up to 14 points of damage and four momentum.

Of course, a TAC 0 player is a new concept so the most the second attack would be is 10 dice. That still chuffing rediculous.

I've been rolling out a lot of theory scenarios, most of them involving 2-4 attacks made, (with Last Light + Blessing) and altogether on an average defense line of 4-1 the Maim result is nearly never hit with Dene ready to trigger Pack Hunter. It becomes realistic against a starting 3-1 defense stats, but even that's swingy. With that said, charging with Navo only gets you 8 Dice after Assist + Singled Out. And paying 2 for a single attack at TAC 6 is alone severely underwhelming as most models on a charge get 9-10 Dice. It averages to about 1 Damage/Influence. Making any influence spent to attack without Assist strictly worse than attacking with Theron. Starting without assist is drastically dropping the total damage output. I've rolled it out in several scenarios and the only time I can drop a model like Jac, Casket, or Brick from full is starting with Assist, Singled Out, Snared and a full 4 Attacks. (Only doable with Blessing/Last Light)

Against 4-1 Models who average around 12 HP, after Assist the damage totals to about 2 DMG/Per 1 Influence, same as Jaecar and lagging behind most Butchers.
Snared + Assist comes to about 2.5DMG/INF. (Total of 8 Damage for 2 Attacks/4 Inf)
Assist + Singled Out comes to about 2.5DMG/Attack
Snared, Assist, & Singled Out makes 3DMG/INF (Total of 12 for 2 attacks, 4 INF, & 1-2 Activations of Setup)
Obviously with all the setup he becomes quickly capable of 1-Turning any model in the game, but most models with damage focus can. Boiler for example, with Tooled Up, and a Single Gang Up bonus (1 Activation of setup), comes to 3 DMG/Influence consistently against a 4-1 model, and that's before bleed. Spigot targeting a KD'd 4-1 (3-1 after KD) model within Commanding Aura consistently gets 4DMG/INF, and I don't even want to try looking at the Union as there are so many damage modifiers and powerful damage dealing models the math makes my head hurt.

Snared, Assist, Singled Out, Blessing and Last Light is most of the Team's effort and Influence for a model that contributes nothing beyond the 2 VP's against a specific enemy that needs to be setup beforehand. Tripcord exists because otherwise it's impossible to interact with the ball on a model. Fillet does much better with the same amount of setup. Maim should be non Momentous, but if you start without Assist you're losing a big chunk of damage. Not to mention there's the chance of failing the character play and not even getting to make the attack, which is also the sole reason Keen Eyes exists.

Basically, my point is that the combat math for Tracker isn't out of line with most of the combat centric models in the game, Pack Hunter is a wild card there, but it's an easy thing to retool thanks to the fact that it doesn't exist.

I'm actually concerned most of the power lies in mobility, someone needs to be able to catch up to him regardless, but a 13" movement between Jog and Nature's blessing makes that difficult. It needs to be split up between getting in, to attack them, and getting out, to avoid retaliation. So, Theron's forest placement needs to be very specific. With that said a 4-0 Defensive stat line would fit him better as after going through the trouble of catching him, a model should be pretty confident in his ability to die.

5 hours ago, Petraites said:

I see some things:

-I don't like the Tracker CP, too much random. You are already paying 2 INF for an Attack, forcing you to also make a TN test to enable it is too much cost. I think it would be better in this way:

-Dene's Pack Hunter trait is too much powerful. You are allowing an out of its activation Charge. Counter Charge allows a Charge as a reaction, but only if the enemy wants. Pack Hunter does it only if a friendly model snares or bleeds someone (a very easy exploit to Hunters). For a mascot, this trait would be awesome, very thematic, but for a player it's too much brutal. Sorry if I can't express correctly my point.

-Keokuk's Log Trap is too much expensive. You are paying 3 INF for a situational 3 DMG and a KD condition. I think 2 INF is better.

PD: Try to translate "Nabo" from spanish. I can't take seriously this player, XD.

I liked the idea of being able to fail the attack entirely, like an archer missing his arrow, because it's another point of counterbalancing which makes the potential ceiling more acceptable. At least that's the thinking. In fact, I almost want to remove Keen Eyes to make him even more unlikely to hit the model's with the lower HP counts and Higher Defenses and shift him into the role of a Tank Killer. As of right now it pretty much makes getting the attacks off guarantee and if that's the case why have a TN test at all.

I actually had a significantly shorter playbook mascot version that I felt was too powerful for exactly those reasons. Most mascots fall within the realm of, just being kinda there. Marbles, Fahad, Dirge, Princess. They're a pretty unassuming bunch of guys who have their moments. But free, out of activation charges are not something that belongs on a mascot that any team comp can take, at least that's where my head was at.

I lengthened the playbook to avoid wrapping easier because generating multiple momentum points for a free charge seemed too easy on TAC 4 + 4, and made the Base Size 40mm to try and block off some charge lanes. I think having 2 Damage so accessible, even at the top might be an offender here for the sake of wrapping. Originally the design intent was to have a lot of playbook results as individual results, (i.e 1 DMG on 3, Push on 1, GB on 3) And then force the player to almost mix and match their results to get the desired outcome. Pack Hunter looks like an ability that needs to be heavily counterbalanced as by it's nature it can't be toned down, (except by reducing ranges which doesn't fix the core problem) Maybe making him 0/3 or 12 HP. She can only reap the benefits of +2 DMG due to bleed and snared with 1 existing model, Jaecar, and can't really contribute to the footballing game, so hopefully the opportunity cost of taking Dene will contribute to making Pack Hunter a justifiable strength. Regardless the playbook will need to be retooled.

Navo/Dene only slot well into a full kill focused team.

As for Keokuk, I agree the premium on Log Trap seems really high, but with Blessing around it feels a bit more acceptable and can be chained with Drag. To ensnare a model in a position they can't cheaply escape. Not to mention placing it in the center of multiple models and forcing one of them to take an inescapable 3DMG + KD, which can be back breaking for some lower HP models.

Finally, Eisnoran's don't speak Spanish! They probably speak German or something...

Thanks for the feedback!

2 hours ago, Azreal13 said:

More eloquent and insightful than any attempt I'd make to express these ideas.

*Incoming reciprocal passive aggression* Hey check out my eloquent and insightful dissection of Boar. He can attack 4 Times for 1 INF get +2 DMG per attack and deal up to 38 Damage generating 8 Momentum. (That's actually possible in between Tooled Up and The Owner, goes up to 46 if under Ox's legendary.) *End Reciprocal Passive Aggression*
Point is, maxing out your dice results can make any model seem OP. I'm not saying there's no point to the criticism, but it's hard to take it seriously when the math of charging wasn't even done correctly and the only purpose of your post seems to be unprovoked passive aggression which I'm thoroughly not okay with.

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Maybe grow a thicker skin? 

It wasn't an attack, it was a jocular poke at someone who's often highly critical of Hunters in response to a post arguing that the players they'd created were too strong. 

Yeesh. 

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1 hour ago, JacctheInsomniac said:

*Incoming reciprocal passive aggression* Hey check out my eloquent and insightful dissection of Boar. He can attack 4 Times for 1 INF get +2 DMG per attack and deal up to 38 Damage generating 8 Momentum. (That's actually possible in between Tooled Up and The Owner, goes up to 46 if under Ox's legendary.) *End Reciprocal Passive Aggression*
Point is, maxing out your dice results can make any model seem OP. I'm not saying there's no point to the criticism, but it's hard to take it seriously when the math of charging wasn't even done correctly and the only purpose of your post seems to be unprovoked passive aggression which I'm thoroughly not okay with.

Okay, so let's look at the difference between the Boar scenario and the Hunters you propose.

Boar first of all needs to get Tooled up. That's one influence and some setup from Meathook. He also needs to ensure he's in Ox's The Owner aura and Ox has to use his legendary - that's another activation and seriously restricts what Boar can charge. So that's two players out of your team of six who have to activate before Boar and spend influence to set him up correctly to do the damage, and your charging angles are restricted. And then when it is his turn he's relying on brute strength to do the damage, because unless he gets a wrap on his charge attack he either selects a non momentous knock down to make his subsequent attacks easier or he does damage to get a Berserk attack. It's unlikely he'll get both, so already we're either reducing damage or making it harder for us to hit.

With your Navo and Dene on the other hand the only set up you need is to have Dene within 8" of the target, which is basically no set up at all. Having 1 momentum in the bank would certainly help to get things started, but that's nowhere near Boar having to use up someone else's activation and influence to get a boost. And you haven't even used Dene's activation yet.

The problem with what you've proposed is that it has no tact. It's not an I win button, but it requires absolutely no thought to pull it off. You've also not considered that it's an impressive amount of damage that one model can put out with def 5+ and never having to intentionally enter another models melee zone. Boar has to factor in that if he doesn't knock down his target then they'll dodge, push or cause a knock down themselves.

I'm not saying that it's not an interesting place to start, but I'm trying to help you recognise that what you've presented is too much. Your going to have to find some way to force the Hunters player to actually think about what they are doing. And this is before we get into what you could achieve with some set up - with nothing more than a Blessing of the Sun Father on him (an effect that doesn't limit him in movement or anything else), Navo could be really disgusting.

A further bugbear is the free charge. Most other free charges occur out of activation. You get to make the charge but that is it. You are proposing a free charge in activation (Furious also does this, that's cool) from another model (that's not cool). The penalty for Furious is that models with it suffer a limited influence allocation. You've not factored that penalty in here. You've basically said to Navo and Jaecar "Here's 2 free influence on top of your normal allocation, giving you an effective 6 influence activation, and a ganging up bonus that has required no preparation." That's the opposite of what Furious does. You aren't penalising the model for getting a free charge during its activation, you're rewarding it.

Again, there's no penalty, no set up and no need for the Hunters player to have to plan their moves.

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1 hour ago, JacctheInsomniac said:

I liked the idea of being able to fail the attack entirely, like an archer missing his arrow, because it's another point of counterbalancing which makes the potential ceiling more acceptable. At least that's the thinking. In fact, I almost want to remove Keen Eyes to make him even more unlikely to hit the model's with the lower HP counts and Higher Defenses and shift him into the role of a Tank Killer. As of right now it pretty much makes getting the attacks off guarantee and if that's the case why have a TN test at all.

I actually had a significantly shorter playbook mascot version that I felt was too powerful for exactly those reasons. Most mascots fall within the realm of, just being kinda there. Marbles, Fahad, Dirge, Princess. They're a pretty unassuming bunch of guys who have their moments. But free, out of activation charges are not something that belongs on a mascot that any team comp can take, at least that's where my head was at.

I lengthened the playbook to avoid wrapping easier because generating multiple momentum points for a free charge seemed too easy on TAC 4 + 4, and made the Base Size 40mm to try and block off some charge lanes. I think having 2 Damage so accessible, even at the top might be an offender here for the sake of wrapping. Originally the design intent was to have a lot of playbook results as individual results, (i.e 1 DMG on 3, Push on 1, GB on 3) And then force the player to almost mix and match their results to get the desired outcome. Pack Hunter looks like an ability that needs to be heavily counterbalanced as by it's nature it can't be toned down, (except by reducing ranges which doesn't fix the core problem) Maybe making him 0/3 or 12 HP. She can only reap the benefits of +2 DMG due to bleed and snared with 1 existing model, Jaecar, and can't really contribute to the footballing game, so hopefully the opportunity cost of taking Dene will contribute to making Pack Hunter a justifiable strength. Regardless the playbook will need to be retooled.

Navo/Dene only slot well 

As for Keokuk, I agree the premium on Log Trap seems really high, but with Blessing around it feels a bit more acceptable and can be chained with Drag. To ensnare a model in a position they can't cheaply escape. Not to mention placing it in the center of multiple models and forcing one of them to take an inescapable 3DMG + KD, which can be back breaking for some lower HP models.

-I don't think you need that randomness in Tracker. 2 INF for this Attack is enough cost, even with all the possible benefit you can get. I have an alternative idea maybe you may like:

Tracker (CST 2, RNG 4"): This model immediately declares an attack against the target enemy model and gains [+3] TAC for each net-hit this TN test generates (up to [+6] TAC) and for the duration of the attack.

In other words, you can make the TAC boost dependant of the net-hits you get with the TN test, and place an upper bound to limit it. You can change the values to fix the maths if needed. Thus, you don't feel you are wasting the INF AND you put enough randomness to the Play.

-Marbles have Go Ape!, that it's a limited Counter Charge (she needs to stay close to Brick to enable it). Not so overpowered for a mascot I think.

-The problem with Pack Hunter is that you get, with one activation, a charge from Dene plus all the stuff the first model were able to do. You get a free movement, a free attack and the nuisance of the presence of a 2" melee model to an esnared enemy. Maybe the Dene's charge won't get too much (as you well explained), but these three things are really good enough. One form to balance the trait could be forcing to pay an additional cost to activate it (like Bonesaw's Football Dervish).

-I looked closer to Keokuk and the sum of all its capabilities will be a black hole to almost every striker of the game. If you get the cover from his forest, you get 3 ARM and the enemy suffer [-1] TAC. Strikers has mostly TAC 4, so it's impossible they can escape from Keokuk with an Attack. Then, Keokuk gets a very dangerous Parting Blow if someone tries to dodge him, thanks to Stranglehold: he has a KD in 3rd column, a T at 2nd column, and TAC 7 (5 + 2 of Parting Blow). Some strikers can dodge with plays, but with melee 2", Stranglehold and the KD trap, makes the attempt a useless one. Add the Drag to the equation and other of the best defenses of the strikers is blown: their mobility. You don't have to pursue and engage them, only walk and Drag. The only Keokuk's weaknesses to try to escape its gravity are KDs and pushes, and strikers are not famous for doing that.

Maybe, you have to soften a little this guy. And you are right, 3 INF cost to Log Trap is a fair one.

PD: Sorry for any odd expression or mistake, English is not my native language.

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1 hour ago, Petraites said:

-I don't think you need that randomness in Tracker. 2 INF for this Attack is enough cost, even with all the possible benefit you can get. I have an alternative idea maybe you may like:

Tracker (CST 2, RNG 4"): This model immediately declares an attack against the target enemy model and gains [+3] TAC for each net-hit this TN test generates (up to [+6] TAC) and for the duration of the attack.

In other words, you can make the TAC boost dependant of the net-hits you get with the TN test, and place an upper bound to limit it. You can change the values to fix the maths if needed. Thus, you don't feel you are wasting the INF AND you put enough randomness to the Play.

-The problem with Pack Hunter is that you get, with one activation, a charge from Dene plus all the stuff the first model were able to do. You get a free movement, a free attack and the nuisance of the presence of a 2" melee model to an esnared enemy. Maybe the Dene's charge won't get too much (as you well explained), but these three things are really good enough. One form to balance the trait could be forcing to pay an additional cost to activate it (like Bonesaw's Football Dervish).

-I looked closer to Keokuk and the sum of all its capabilities will be a black hole to almost every striker of the game. If you get the cover from his forest, you get 3 ARM and the enemy suffer [-1] TAC. Strikers has mostly TAC 4, so it's impossible they can escape from Keokuk with an Attack. Then, Keokuk gets a very dangerous Parting Blow if someone tries to dodge him, thanks to Stranglehold: he has a KD in 3rd column, a T at 2nd column, and TAC 7 (5 + 2 of Parting Blow). Some strikers can dodge with plays, but with melee 2", Stranglehold and the KD trap, makes the attempt a useless one. Add the Drag to the equation and other of the best defenses of the strikers is blown: their mobility. You don't have to pursue and engage them, only walk and Drag. The only Keokuk's weaknesses to try to escape its gravity are KDs and pushes, and strikers are not famous for doing that.

Maybe, you have to soften a little this guy. And you are right, 3 INF cost to Log Trap is a fair one.

PD: Sorry for any odd expression or mistake, English is not my native language.

Your English is actually very good, nothing I don't understand!

I really like the idea of interacting with the Net Hits of Tracker character play and the TAC values, I'd never thought of that. It'll be an interesting lever to work with.

Having to spend 1 or 2 MP to activate Pack Hunter is another great idea. Reduce its range to 6" and it's starting to look alright. I wouldn't mind dropping her Melee Zone to 1" as well all things considered. Marbles only has access to pushes dodges, and generally his damage output doesnt rise above

Yea I just noticed that too, Anti-Striker model seems fine but a "Your strikers don't get to function" model is most certainly not. She'll be dropped to 1" Melee, and then probably lose mud concealer. Move the tackle and KD up the playbook, there's no real reason to have a momentous tackle so accessible.

Thanks for the suggestions, theses are awesome!

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Also keep in mind that the dire wolf's playbook goes against standard conventions. Absurdity of a TAC 6 2" melee mascot with 2 good character plays and a laundry list of traits aside. Also your singled out has a 4" range meaning its not the normal singled out, so the wolf can apply singled out to people that aren't its main target. Where do i sign up for this change to dirge and avarisse 

Every model in the game has 1 damage on column 1, usually non momentous

Could you please design me a morticians player out of curiosity, i kind of want to see what you come up with. i want a TAC 6 mascot too

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Your playbooks don't fit the GB design. Every model in the game has a 1 dmg on their first success and a tackle somewhere on the playbook.

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2 minutes ago, Anudem said:

Your playbooks don't fit the GB design. Every model in the game has a 1 dmg on their first success and a tackle somewhere on the playbook.

Not every model has a tackle, but most (99%) do. Memory doesn't, but he is a small puppet.

 

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1 minute ago, Napoleon said:

Not every model has a tackle, but most (99%) do. Memory doesn't, but he is a small puppet.

 

Meant to mention Memory, but he's not a traditional model/player. 

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5 hours ago, Napoleon said:

Also keep in mind that the dire wolf's playbook goes against standard conventions. Absurdity of a TAC 6 2" melee mascot with 2 good character plays and a laundry list of traits aside. Also your singled out has a 4" range meaning its not the normal singled out, so the wolf can apply singled out to people that aren't its main target. Where do i sign up for this change to dirge and avarisse 

Every model in the game has 1 damage on column 1, usually non momentous

Could you please design me a morticians player out of curiosity, i kind of want to see what you come up with. i want a TAC 6 mascot too

Dene is not a mascot, but a player, like Seenah.

JacctheInsomniac likes this

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13 hours ago, Napoleon said:

Also your singled out has a 4" range meaning its not the normal singled out, so the wolf can apply singled out to people that aren't its main target. Where do i sign up for this change to dirge and avarisse

That shouldn't be the case... well actually most of what you mentioned shouldn't be the case as the wolf isn't a mascot but that especially shouldn't be the case.

I'm working with Google Docs to modify the template as it was originally in Microsoft Word, which I don't have access to so there's some formatting spacing issues due to my atrocious copy/paste workflow, Singled Out most definitely functions as it does on every other player.

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58 minutes ago, JacctheInsomniac said:

That shouldn't be the case... well actually most of what you mentioned shouldn't be the case as the wolf isn't a mascot but that especially shouldn't be the case.

I'm working with Google Docs to modify the template as it was originally in Microsoft Word, which I don't have access to so there's some formatting spacing issues due to my atrocious copy/paste workflow, Singled Out most definitely functions as it does on every other player.

Your Singled Out has a 4" range rather than the P range.

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4 hours ago, Dracilic said:

Your Singled Out has a 4" range rather than the P range.

Shoulda mentioned typo in my post somewhere eh?

It's a typo, SO shouldn't have 4" range.

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