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Ik-tornado

Collected Farmers Spoilers

105 posts in this topic
4 minutes ago, Sid said:

By the looks of it Smoke Alchemists will just eat them alive - and the poor farmers can do nothing about it.

Conditions in general will be their nemesis... combine them with ranged plays, and they are simply doomed...

This seems like an odd take to me, Millstone can pull a crucial condition off once or twice, Peck can make an important model Cocky, they have tons of natural health and Harrow's healing aura should at least mitigate some condition damage. If anything I think they're uniquely set up to just power through conditons; it's attacks getting to the top of a playbook that will wreck them since most Farmers have low DEF, no ARM, and a bunch of HP. Look out for playbooks like Blackheart's that have bonkers top-ends. 

For example, turn one Thresher could kick off, Millstone could give a model Goal Defense then push Thresher forward, Millstone can tank the first KD and Fire of a turn, Peck can give Cocky to Thresher so he can walk through a fire AoE and ignore it, and Harrow can heal people the 2 HP they lose from AoE plays. Obviously that's a lot of INF so you can't do it every turn, but that seems like a threatening and relatively safe kickoff versus Smoke :)

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So looking at them again with a serious eye, my first observation is that Thresher is a ridiculously hard sell. With Thresher you basically have to take Tater/Bushel + the three sowers + Peck just to reach 13 influence. Dropping Jackstraw to pick up the other of Tater/Bushel tanks him down to 11 influence and that's a hard place to be; I do run a Hunter team with 11 influence a lot but that team has three furious models to help make up for it while this has, what, a free harvest marker from Harrow and Millstone, that doesn't really cut it.

Grange has a much easier time cobbling together a team. Grange, Harrow and Millstone, by themselves, provide 10 influence and three harvest markers. From there, Windle, Tater and Peck can pull in some pain and still leave you with a fairly passable influence value. Certainly seems like the formula is 4 sowers : 2 reapers when building a team, at least at a glance.

Tater and Harrow seem like models that never leave the lineup. Harrow is just an efficient utility piece that provides a little bit of everything. A harvest marker, good crowdouts, AoE healing, Tooled Up, and the ability to turn influence now into momentum now and more influence tomorrow are all quite great. And Tater, most of us played with Tater in his promo form and found him really stellar; here he lost his harvest marker but instead gained the ability to Mow Down on a parting blow, gained a top end influence and also doesn't have to activate to turn on his counter-charge (someone else can do it for him). These are all really great things and I see him being pretty key moving forward.

Jackstraw is... a very weird fellow. He's a sower who doesn't get a free harvest marker and instead has to buy his with influence, has almost no movement, and has almost no attacking capability. He could potentially teleport 10" in one activation though before even moving, so if somehow you got a harvest marker placed far enough forward he could make a very ridiculous goal drive. I'm very suspicious about plays like this, though, as it takes a lot of setup and if it fails you could get absolutely nothing. He could, on his own power, make a 17" goal threat (Crop Dusting, place one of the two within 4", At Your Post to teleport 5", jog 2", kick 8") so I guess that's still pretty okay?

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1 hour ago, Khift said:

So looking at them again with a serious eye, my first observation is that Thresher is a ridiculously hard sell. With Thresher you basically have to take Tater/Bushel + the three sowers + Peck just to reach 13 influence. Dropping Jackstraw to pick up the other of Tater/Bushel tanks him down to 11 influence and that's a hard place to be; I do run a Hunter team with 11 influence a lot but that team has three furious models to help make up for it while this has, what, a free harvest marker from Harrow and Millstone, that doesn't really cut it.

Grange has a much easier time cobbling together a team. Grange, Harrow and Millstone, by themselves, provide 10 influence and three harvest markers. From there, Windle, Tater and Peck can pull in some pain and still leave you with a fairly passable influence value. Certainly seems like the formula is 4 sowers : 2 reapers when building a team, at least at a glance.

Tater and Harrow seem like models that never leave the lineup. Harrow is just an efficient utility piece that provides a little bit of everything. A harvest marker, good crowdouts, AoE healing, Tooled Up, and the ability to turn influence now into momentum now and more influence tomorrow are all quite great. And Tater, most of us played with Tater in his promo form and found him really stellar; here he lost his harvest marker but instead gained the ability to Mow Down on a parting blow, gained a top end influence and also doesn't have to activate to turn on his counter-charge (someone else can do it for him). These are all really great things and I see him being pretty key moving forward.

Jackstraw is... a very weird fellow. He's a sower who doesn't get a free harvest marker and instead has to buy his with influence, has almost no movement, and has almost no attacking capability. He could potentially teleport 10" in one activation though before even moving, so if somehow you got a harvest marker placed far enough forward he could make a very ridiculous goal drive. I'm very suspicious about plays like this, though, as it takes a lot of setup and if it fails you could get absolutely nothing. He could, on his own power, make a 17" goal threat (Crop Dusting, place one of the two within 4", At Your Post to teleport 5", jog 2", kick 8") so I guess that's still pretty okay?

Thresher is a lot of fun to play with, but I have always found his team harder to build. It's really difficult to justify Windle or Buckwheat with him. I would agree with the general rule of 2 Reapers to 4 Planters being the normal sweet spot...

1 hour ago, wrenwood said:

I thought the whole thing was that they would have low influence stats and the harvest markers would boost that or provide synergies. That clearly isn't the case. They can have as many influence or more than normal teams, get extra from harvest tokens, and still get bonuses from the markers. How on earth does SFG think that BOTSF is justification for giving Hunter terrible influence stats, and then has a team that can run 15-20 influence?

You can play a team with a hell of a lot of influence, but I think you'll struggle to get much bang for your buck playing with just the supporting players... you can make a team with the most influence in the game, but it's also worth noting that a team with Thresher, Buckwheat, Windle, Tater, Bushel and Harrow is only 7 influence...

You've got options with Farmers, but not all of them will actually produce results...

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A little disturbing to hear that the better players are in the expansion, so I'll have to buy all the models to get a good team together, even though I might not be using quite a few of them (not quite seeing Jackstraw working). Metal blisters, at least I could buy exactly what I want. I do have the LE Tater somewhere though, and he is looking like he'll wanna be in my team from the start. So disappointed they won't be at Salute - was really looking forward to picking them up at the weekend.

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Stealth buff* for Windle: new harvest marker text says you may remove markers to get influence. While the old rule you removed all. This means you can set him up at the end of the turn to open with 6 attacks next turn.

* Not a buff since it was always this way, but early theory was that you couldn't.

 

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Thresher looks like he can do some insane damage. Have Harrow come in 5th activation and place 1-2 harvest markers in the scrum and tool up thresher, then have thresher come in. Assuming a modest 2 hits for 4-5 attacks and 1-2 'Don't fear the..." from Harrows harvest markers, you do 16-23 damage to 1 player and easily 4-8 damage to 1-2 other players. With his legendary and against a poor defense model you can easily double that damage through wraps. Instead of Harrow, having the scarecrow place 2 harvest markers 5th activation also seems really strong.

Grange's Tough hide for 1 influence character play seems too strong against some teams like the Masons or the Brewers, but having a support captain in addition to 1-2 support players and 1 mascot seems unacceptable to me. 3-4 Fully loaded regular players seems worse than 1 fully loaded captain and 1-2 fully loaded regular players.

Farmers seem like a very reactionary team to me. They can't aggressively position harvest markers early in a turn because the opponent can easily remove them, so you need to wait until all players with influence in an area have activated before you place them aggressively. 

None of the farmers (but the scarecrow) have momentous tackles and they don't have stellar kick stats, so it's difficult to tackle the ball and score in the first activation of the turn. They want to pick up the ball via knockdowns or from a kick-out and then have Bushel 'I'm Open' them to score.

Early in the turn you place harvest markers behind Windle/Tater/Bushel or somewhere irrelevant for +1 influence next turn and "get in the goal" with Millstone. Mid turn you knock down dudes/crowd out/ pick up the ball and late turn you place harvest markers in areas of the pitch the opponent can't react to and send in Thresher. 

 

I'm thinking 

Thresher, (Any mascot), Harrow, Millstone, Bushel, (Anyone else) will make a decent team, looking for 1 goal from bushel, 2 takeouts from a last activation Thresher and then scrounge the last 4 points wherever I can.

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The biggest concerns i have is i don't know how they deal with the current meta - they are not stellar footballers at all. They seem to be a 1/4 team, but i imagine that bushel + grange + A&G (? if they work for them?) might be able to swing 2/2 as a usual plan. Grange's better football legend aura can help turn some of the worse kick stats into viable footballers for certain.

i have a feeling scoring almost certainly comes down to one of the players leveraging 2" (or 3") melee to get the ball and bushel using i'm open and a teamwork dodge to go for the glory, or recieving the ball and sending in bushel right from the start.

In fact, receiving the ball + having A&G in reserve would be pretty nice, if A&G work for them (?) i assume just because they work for everyone but i haven't been following much about what kind of union the farmers recieve, if any.

on a side note, as a mortician player, i am extremely happy to take Silence out of retirement. Bring me your def 4 and under synergy based players

However, those concerns aside, i believe they look like a very interesting mechanically beatdown team. I prefer thresher at a first glance for this, but it's very possible grange is the better captain because he allows you to bring lots of reapers. i imagine you're going to have harrow in every list though. i hesitate to call anyone auto include, but harrow with either captain seems very very good. Tooled up is super good in a beatdown team. As is sowing the seeds as many times as possible (TAC 7 on a thresher legendary turn too!)

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

The biggest concerns i have is i don't know how they deal with the current meta - they are not stellar footballers at all. They seem to be a 1/4 team, but i imagine that bushel + grange + A&G (? if they work for them?) might be able to swing 2/2 as a usual plan. Grange's better football legend aura can help turn some of the worse kick stats into viable footballers for certain.

 

My concern is similar, but less to do with their ability to score and more to do with our only character with a defensive sum of 6 is Bushel near Harrow (5/1). Having that kind of defense is huge against fish who would then have to rely on the relatively easily controlled siren to get the ball.  This makes ball defense a bit tough, but I can see a couple corner case jank scenarios to mess with it.

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My first impressions and theory craft:

At first glance these guys say "butchers/brewers, eat your heart out". The raw damage potential appears to be through the roof. Most of them are 2" They've also got above average health/healing. Both captains seem very strong. The weak side is overall poor defensive stats and pretty horrible ball skills. You have to really think hard about list building because you really have to balance your 3s with your 0s, but even a team which might seem to have traditionally low influence can gain an awful lot on turn 2 when the markers get picked up. It seems to me they will most likely be a solid T2 team. They'll have issues with Fish/Alchemists, but probably find a spot maybe right below union, but above butchers. 

Building lists was very difficult.

Thresher seems like such a bad ass, but when you start designing lists you realize you are more or less locked out of buckwheat and windell, unless you are looking to run both Jackstraw and Millstone. I don't think you can justify running 2 support characters in the current environment. You need to have proactive tempo plays in this game. Jackstraw, at first glance, seems to me to the winner of the 3/3 models. Using crop dust to "bank" 2 influence seems super strong in the lists I came up with. What helped solidify Thresher for me was the realization A&G will most likely be playable with farmers. A&G give him a 2 influence model on turn 1, an excellent goal threat, as well as a really strong set up model for when he decides to start going ham. A&G can set up him for a suuuuppper sick activation. I think he gets up to 17 dice on a charge? and he can't be counter attacked? The extra influence lets you bring either Tater or Windle for a real beat um up list: Thresher, Peck, Jackstraw, Harrow, Tater, A&G. This list brings a natural 12 inf on turn 1, but has the option of banking 3 into turn 2 for a massive 15 influence. You can fully load Thresher, Tater, and A&G with a few left over for tooled up or another crop dust. 

Grange, on the other hand, feels a lot like a better Ox. He really opens up the list building with his 5 influence, plus he is banking 1 a turn (3 on his legendary). I think you can safely bring Windle and Tater with Grange, or you can slot Bushel in for the goal threat option (20" threat on 4inf). I still feel like you probably need at least one of the 3inf characters to power the team, but since Grange is already banking 1, Millstone seems like a viable option if you are facing Alchemists. Grange, aside from his tool box of support options, also deals reasonable damage in his own right. He does similar damage to corsair with his tac 6, low KD, and momentous 2 on 3. He seems like a great last into first activation captain since he'll be throwing up Honest Labour and Harvest markers. I like: Grange, Peck, Jackstraw, Harrow, Tater, Windle for a respectable 12 natural inf with the option of banking up to 16 in turn 2. At this point you are almost fully loading your entire team. Also this entire team is 2" reach except the mascot. I think there is a solid millstone or bushel slot here as well if you are anticipating a more goal scoring tournament (you probably should be).

Initial 9 man roster: Thresher, Grange, Peck, Jackstraw, Harrow, Tater, Windle, Bushel, A&G. 

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Grange > Thresher

 

Donkey is amazing.

 

 

The key to playing Farmers well, and beating farmers, lies in the Harvest Markers.  

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Grange seems like a really fun support captain. I didn't like the look of Jack Straw the first time I saw him, but with his tackle on 1, 3 places per activation and 3/10" kick in Grainge's aura, I feel like he'll be great at taking the ball off strikers and getting it to Bushel.

Edit: Also, what Isante said. Donkey has a 20" goal threat on his own, doesn't he? Plus 4" pushes with no strings attached.

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7 hours ago, wrenwood said:

I thought the whole thing was that they would have low influence stats and the harvest markers would boost that or provide synergies. That clearly isn't the case. They can have as many influence or more than normal teams, get extra from harvest tokens, and still get bonuses from the markers. How on earth does SFG think that BOTSF is justification for giving Hunter terrible influence stats, and then has a team that can run 15-20 influence?

A Planter Lineup doesn't really do anything, they are all about putting out Harvest Tokens so will be a bit Rubbish, you need Reapers who lack INF so It balances out.

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49 minutes ago, Isante said:

Grange > Thresher

 

Donkey is amazing.

 

 

The key to playing Farmers well, and beating farmers, lies in the Harvest Markers.  

can they be destroyed by running over them or does it have to be charges? if its the latter they're pretty hard to deal with. 

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Just now, Napoleon said:

can they be destroyed by running over them or does it have to be charges? if its the latter they're pretty hard to deal with. 

spint or charge into base contact destroys

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Just now, Napoleon said:

can they be destroyed by running over them or does it have to be charges? if its the latter they're pretty hard to deal with. 

It has to be a sprint or a charge.

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Just now, Ik-tornado said:

spint or charge into base contact destroys

this is going to get really flavourful when i have dirge running around eating harvest markers and a scarecrow will be trying to chase him off

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1 minute ago, Ziggy said:

Can you put Cocky on Millstone and use her to draw, then ignore conditions from whoever within 6"?

It only ignores the first one, but yes

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Just now, Ziggy said:

Someday I'll stop asking constant questions, maybe. But do we know which 6 are gonna be in the starter?

presumably Grange, Peck, Bushel, Harrow, Jackstraw, Windle. Basing this on the fact all 6 were shown together in art. No other "official" confirmation to go off of to my knowledge.

Now a question for y'all. Anyone out there going to be working on some paper dolls? *visible signs of withdrawal* 

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3 hours ago, Napoleon said:

Grange's better football legend aura can help turn some of the worse kick stats into viable footballers for certain.

Don't forget it's only for Passes and doesn't extend the range or improve the Shots on goal.

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39 minutes ago, Ik-tornado said:

presumably Grange, Peck, Bushel, Harrow, Jackstraw, Windle. Basing this on the fact all 6 were shown together in art. No other "official" confirmation to go off of to my knowledge.

Now a question for y'all. Anyone out there going to be working on some paper dolls? *visible signs of withdrawal* 

I want to start 'proxying' them on Vassal (there's no local scene here, sadly), but I just realized that I don't know of any models that even come near their health pools. Also, in Ziggy's neverending rules questions: Would having Jack sprint his whopping 4" from a marker that he was in base with destroy the marker? And can he crop dust an area with no enemies?

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9 hours ago, Sid said:

By the looks of it Smoke Alchemists will just eat them alive - and the poor farmers can do nothing about it.

Conditions in general will be their nemesis... combine them with ranged plays, and they are simply doomed...

silence morticians seems a lot scarier. Between a 10" sprinting bird eating harvest tokens, silence to tuck reapers (like windle, 3"/5" 0/2 TAC 5, no harvest tokens in sight) and to shut out valuable support models like grange (almost 100% of his support is invalidated, except for banking harvest tokens and walking around KDing people for next turn) and Obulus shenanigans in general i think its one of their toughest match ups.

i'd also say that Shark will be very rough for them., models like Windle are going to get paralysed, gut and string will be very reliable, and in general shark has very little to fear from players with a lot of influence but no particularily threatening ranged plays until after his legendary is burned. hes also aiming to win so fast that synergy with harvest tokens will be hard to set up.

Smoke alchs though, seems to be a great match up. as others have said, way too much to chip through. They can also avoid vKat getting an easy condition, like KDing someone on his own charge by having millstone take it

 

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4 hours ago, Mr. Grumble said:

Thresher looks like he can do some insane damage. Have Harrow come in 5th activation and place 1-2 harvest markers in the scrum and tool up thresher, then have thresher come in. Assuming a modest 2 hits for 4-5 attacks and 1-2 'Don't fear the..." from Harrows harvest markers, you do 16-23 damage to 1 player and easily 4-8 damage to 1-2 other players. With his legendary and against a poor defense model you can easily double that damage through wraps. 

Don't Fear the... is once per turn.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned about Thresher is his 3/8" kick stat. With extended melee, dodges off his momentous KD or a non momentous dodge on 1 he's got a decent goal threat and kick off pressure. I love me some Thresher...

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