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Stephen78

Masons at the Rusty Cup

95 posts in this topic
8 hours ago, Killermonkey said:

I do think that he is so good that his contrarian nature affects his balance perceptions. When you are able to plan and use your peices better than 95% of the other players, whatever you play with will feel good and balanced. So someone says "X is not good enough" and he responds with "That person is wrong, I will play it to prove him wrong" and his awesomeness leads to evidence supporting him.  

That said, his analysis on how to combat players and how to use the less used players to their potential is spot on and well worth the price of admission. Replicating his results is another question for us plebs trying to scrap by :P 

I really find the idea that "bad" teams are only playable when piloted by good players extremely odd. At "pleb" level, to borrow your description, people make a lot more mistakes and know a lot less about other teams then at the higher levels. So basically anything goes if you commit to a team.

That being said I think Masons have a few unique trumps that make them better then the popular opinion of the moment. But it requires a lot of patience and positioning.  

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I definitely rate masons higher than others. One of my regular opponents is a Mason and even when I win the sweat is dropping off my face. Makes me work for it.

One game in recent memory ended 12-10 where he activated honour and tried to kill 2 players to go from 8 to 12 and he got within 1 attack of winning but ran out of inf. Obulus did obulus things and scored. My heart still hasn't recovered from it.

Honour and harmony time wizardry is rough stuff! Double counter charge is really nice too.

 

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Don't get me wrong, I play masons, really enjoy them and have seen success with them. The difference is rarely am I blowing out opponents like he is. I actually think masons are where teams should be in terms of overall power but suffer from some internal balance problems that leads to hammer, vet harmony, chisel, and granite just not being attractive choices over your 7 normal core choices of honour, harmony, marbles, brick, flint, mallet, and tower. So that leads a a reasonably predictable lineup that, in my experience, also struggles against the top dogs. 

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I think the results curve shows that most teams are around that 45-55% win ratio which is where designers expect them to be. A good player will shift their personal results up towards 100%, but that doesn't mean anything about balance unless they have found some next-level shit that makes them unbeatable - which I don't believe exists right now.

Only Hunters are languishing way below the curve and once they get 12 models perhaps they will move into that design sweet spot. 

TLDR: Masons are fine, sure they might have internal issues - what Guild doesn't. That will be affected by the winds of Meta, which can shift for any number of reasons.

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I think there are spots for other lesser used models in the guild such as granite, chisel, vet harmony but they are into more specific match ups. The same though is said of mallet and tower for me and even flint.

I played @huggythebear the other day and he did a sterling job with chisel into fish, also played flint more aggressively from kick off and ended his turn with 3 potential sup strat targets....ultimately scoring with flint to make it 4-4.

 

I am intrigued to try a more pure hammer line up and see if i can make that work and what its good into. In my head it has a different play style and more linear in approach and therefore more predictable. Doesnt mean its not good but it may not suit my style of play which is about denial and options, forcing my opponents to make mistakes. Additionally normal harmony may lose out in that list and models with things like acrobatic are great....possible 2nd striker after flint though from the heroic

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Stoic is definitely Hammer's big advantage.  He's one of the few players without 2" melee that can reliably go in first activation and not really worry about counterattacks shutting him down.  He can even deal with single dodges pretty well with Knockback.

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1 hour ago, Stephen78 said:

I think there are spots for other lesser used models in the guild such as granite, chisel, vet harmony but they are into more specific match ups. The same though is said of mallet and tower for me and even flint.

I played @huggythebear the other day and he did a sterling job with chisel into fish, also played flint more aggressively from kick off and ended his turn with 3 potential sup strat targets....ultimately scoring with flint to make it 4-4.

 

I am intrigued to try a more pure hammer line up and see if i can make that work and what its good into. In my head it has a different play style and more linear in approach and therefore more predictable. Doesnt mean its not good but it may not suit my style of play which is about denial and options, forcing my opponents to make mistakes. Additionally normal harmony may lose out in that list and models with things like acrobatic are great....possible 2nd striker after flint though from the heroic

I'm still mulling that Chisel pick. Problem is that I'm having a hard time seeing her play against anything other than Shark Fish (Corsair could easily drag her in and kill her with a little help of his friends). Hammer's heroic might be the thing that really could turn her up to 11. 

I would love to go dual captain because I feel Hammer could handle a few match-ups quite well. Playing him as my only captain would make feel quite anxious in quite a few match ups. For the moment I don't think it works for me, because I love the monkey too much,  but probably going to revisit the idea in the future. 

 

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3 hours ago, HuggyTheBear said:

I'm still mulling that Chisel pick. Problem is that I'm having a hard time seeing her play against anything other than Shark Fish (Corsair could easily drag her in and kill her with a little help of his friends). Hammer's heroic might be the thing that really could turn her up to 11. 

I would love to go dual captain because I feel Hammer could handle a few match-ups quite well. Playing him as my only captain would make feel quite anxious in quite a few match ups. For the moment I don't think it works for me, because I love the monkey too much,  but probably going to revisit the idea in the future. 

 

Yeah. A savvy fish player can wait until their last pick to choose a captain and if you put chisel into a corsair matchup things are going to go very poorly. So she is taking a spot in your nine JUST for the fish matchup and only when you are kicking. Seems a little niche but if she changes the matchup that heavily then maybe it's worth it? 

As far as hammer, he's got matchups he is good into and some he is bad into. His problem is that he is very linear (unlike honour with her time wizard tricks) so the matchups he isn't good in are going to be really bad. That and that the team wants to look different than a honor team so it's hard to bring both and fit what you need into a 9. 

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So after reading Stephen's inspiration plays I have been using the KO line-up again.  I have played two games and lost 8-12 against Union and won 12-11 against Butchers.  Against Union I made a silly mistake which could have resulted me going 8-4 at start of turn two. 

 

I'm not a good player but am getting better.  I think, for me, you have to be patience with this line-up and don't do anything rash that will break the synergies that the players can offer.  Flint has been a real maverick for me scoring 1 goal against Union (could have been 2 goals start of second turn) and 2 against Butchers. 

 

I've always felt the other Guilds have a lot of gimmicks up their sleeve but the more you play Masons the more shenanigans they can do.  In the Butchers game, where I was losing 8-11, I got Brick to pass to an engaged Flint.  As Brick was in Mallet's FL aura, I bonus timed and managed just get the one successful TN of 5.  I managed to win initiative for the next turn and had Flint WTO out of melee and charged Tenderiser, push/dodged and scored the winner.  It was the risk I needed to take since my opponent could have easily finished an Honour and Brick, both with 3 health left. 

 

So thanks to @Stephen78 for being positive about the Masons. 

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I have now played 2 games with Hammer and i think i might be able to squeeze him into my tournament 9.

 

I found him pretty resilient and both games elected to kick with him to have him down field. Using minx i managed to get marked target for flint to get range and generate a few extra inf and everyone positioned up the board to support turn 2....wrecker going miles to sit near a down town hammer.

Although i played hammer i still think marbles is viable with him, and this would let me put tower back in (who i dropped from the 9), but i want to get a few more games with wrecker first.

 

Both games i won, 12-3, 12-2 vs different hunters line ups. Managed to avoid pinned being useful by being in combat turn 1

 

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3 minutes ago, Stephen78 said:

 

I have now played 2 games with Hammer and i think i might be able to squeeze him into my tournament 9.

 

I found him pretty resilient and both games elected to kick with him to have him down field. Using minx i managed to get marked target for flint to get range and generate a few extra inf and everyone positioned up the board to support turn 2....wrecker going miles to sit near a down town hammer.

Although i played hammer i still think marbles is viable with him, and this would let me put tower back in (who i dropped from the 9), but i want to get a few more games with wrecker first.

 

Both games i won, 12-3, 12-2 vs different hunters line ups. Managed to avoid pinned being useful by being in combat turn 1

 

Well I'm going to give Hammer another try I guess :-D

Haven't played many games with him but Minx helps him a lot: Marked Target is pretty nice and Snared really helps to turn up Hammer. Another interesting thought I had was that his heroic could potentially turn Brick and Mallet into surprise damage dealers. Let's say Hammer is growing on me and having a viable double captain build could be huge. 

 

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57 minutes ago, HuggyTheBear said:

Well I'm going to give Hammer another try I guess :-D

Haven't played many games with him but Minx helps him a lot: Marked Target is pretty nice and Snared really helps to turn up Hammer. Another interesting thought I had was that his heroic could potentially turn Brick and Mallet into surprise damage dealers. Let's say Hammer is growing on me and having a viable double captain build could be huge. 

 

It's just a shame that o harmony is next to useless (TAC 3) when honour isn't on the field. Unlike someone like corsair that can take osiren and do fine even though he would prefer vsiren.

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Unless hammer covers honours bad matchups, i don't really see much of a point to him in a 9. But if he does cover her bad matchups then hes a really solid choice to bring into a 9. 

its the questions of "what are you bringing him for, and what are you giving up to bring him?"

I tend to lay out the most popular captains in a table and assign the captains i'd rather have into them. Then look to see where the weaknesses of an individual captain are. Because most tournament opponents are fish, alchs and union, these are the very most important ones to answer. Then follow up with the middle popularity guilds. Match ups like hunters can mostly be ignored for now (sorry hunters).

for me, double captain double mascot is basically something i will never play. Double captain yes, but not double mascot. Because when you bring dual captains you're trying to be flexible for match ups, but having only a single player you can sub out is the exact opposite of flexibility. 

 

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Thats a valid point but you are really subbing out a mascot, a player and a captain. So 3 different choices in how you play and how the team plays. 

As i said single mascot may be an option to give you an extra choice.

Agreed on the above with o Harmony, i did look at her but with only tac 3 and 2/6kick no reliability. Tac 4 or 2/8kick might have seen her squeeze in as her tackle is in a great place and she can get the ball and with hammers heroic make an attempt on goal even engaged more reliably.

 

Match ups its an interesting one. I need to play him more to have an idea as to what hes good into. 

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1 hour ago, Napoleon said:

Unless hammer covers honours bad matchups, i don't really see much of a point to him in a 9. But if he does cover her bad matchups then hes a really solid choice to bring into a 9. 

its the questions of "what are you bringing him for, and what are you giving up to bring him?"

I tend to lay out the most popular captains in a table and assign the captains i'd rather have into them. Then look to see where the weaknesses of an individual captain are. Because most tournament opponents are fish, alchs and union, these are the very most important ones to answer. Then follow up with the middle popularity guilds. Match ups like hunters can mostly be ignored for now (sorry hunters).

for me, double captain double mascot is basically something i will never play. Double captain yes, but not double mascot. Because when you bring dual captains you're trying to be flexible for match ups, but having only a single player you can sub out is the exact opposite of flexibility. 

 

My experience is that Honour isn't really a good/bad match up captain. She is decent into everything imo without really ever being highly favored into anything. Hammer is a lot more black and white in that regard. Including him into the 9 would about his good match ups. On paper I like him into Brewers, Butchers, vRage Union, Corsair Fish and perhaps Engineers. Union and Fish could probably outdraft us with a double captain build but like I said I don't think Honour is unplayable into those match ups and perhaps if you can force a minor concession it's worth considering?  

My 9 would be Kick off 6, Tower, Minx, Hammer. I'd include Tower in a pure Honour build and whilst I don't think Honour needs Minx as much as Hammer she isn't a bad pick at all. So looking at those that lose out:

- Chisel: good into Shark, not so great into Corsair so the fish double captain build is still a problem.

- Granite: great into Brewers, Butchers, vRage Union, match ups where I think having Hammer moves the needle more

- vetHarmony: never been a fan, probably need to play against an Alchie Smoke player to learn to appreciate her :-D 

- Wrecker: I don't see the point of playing Wrecker with Honour if you have Marbles. Wrecker is more interesting with Hammer but teams like Brewers and Butchers will still have to respect the double counter charge.  

Perhaps I'm too optimistic because I'd really would like this to work. But I do think it's something worth researching and putting table/vassal time in to.  

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8 hours ago, Bisounours said:

It's just a shame that o harmony is next to useless (TAC 3) when honour isn't on the field. Unlike someone like corsair that can take osiren and do fine even though he would prefer vsiren.

 

While she is certainly not great on her own I had a match where Honour got taken out in connection with Marbles. Harmony went all in with 3+1 Tac, tackled the ball from the opponent, scored a tap-in and won the game. Being considered as an underperformer sometimes pays off. :)

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Interesting, I actually brought double mascot to a tournament and LOVED the option that Wrecker gives.

My 9:

Honour, Harmony, Wrecker, Marbles, Flint, Mallet, Brick, Chisel, Tower. 

Played Wrecker against Brewers and Butchers, and when I did that, I put Tower in for the TU.  Played Marbles against Corsair Fish so I didn't need Tower. 

Never played Brick in the 3 games for some reason.  I think because I wanted to try Chisel out and she actually did quite well against butchers, because as long as Honour is alive and with a full stack of INF, usually they have to go for Honour and leave Chisel alone. 

I think going into the next tournament I think I'll go with:

Honour, Wrecker, Marbles, Harmony, Flint, Mallet, Tower, Chisel, Mist/Snakeskin. 

Mist for the Quad-Striker build (gotta try it out in S3 first before committing to it).  Snakeskin because she over-performed for me in a vRage team against Shark Fish and Midas Alchemists, holding the ball till the bitter end (and scoring both winning goals).  Unsure how well she plays with Masons but will have to see.

 

As for Hammer, I enjoy playing him once in a while.  But like a lot of people said, he's super linear and can be controlled by many teams.  I probably will dust him off and play him a little more going forward.

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@kryzak i meant double captain + double mascot. i think double mascot is reasonable for a single captain when you have good options. i just really don't like only having a single player that can be subbed out. Whereas w/ single captain you still have 2 flex slots for players, and you're not pulled in 2 different directions by 2 different captains.

 

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12 hours ago, Napoleon said:

@kryzak i meant double captain + double mascot. i think double mascot is reasonable for a single captain when you have good options. i just really don't like only having a single player that can be subbed out. Whereas w/ single captain you still have 2 flex slots for players, and you're not pulled in 2 different directions by 2 different captains.

 

Oh I see, yeah, I have not figured out a way to do a double captain + double mascot, so you're very right about that.

If I *had* to do a double captain list (which I've concluded I probably would never do except for a fun casual game), it might be:

Honour

Hammer

Marbles

oHarmony

Flint

Mallet

Brick

Tower

Chisel or Mist, depending on how I feel for that tournament.

So yeah, I guess I *could* do double mascot and drop the idea of Chisel or Mist, but I don't think Wrecker brings *that* much value over Chisel (vs Shark Fish) or Mist.

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While I've never taken double mascot in my Tournament 9, (S2 it was Wrecker, S3 its Marbles), I always pack both captains, albeit just for the mind games during team selection. For the last 5 - 6 Tournaments I've attended, my 9 has been....

Honour, Hammer, Marbles, Brick, Flint, Mallet, Tower, vHarmony and Decimate.

And for all of those games it's been Hammer all the way, yes Honour has more tricks, but I find hammer more reliable, he does his thing and never fails to earn between 4 and 6 VP minimum. I agree he is predictable, but the trick with using him is to give yourself multiple options, thats the secret to Masons. And with multiple predicatable moves for him, your opponent cant counter them all, so embrase the predicatbility and use it to your advantage!

Or it may just be that he suits my aggressive playstyle, but I feel thats the way to get the most out of him, and with his Heroic, he can pull almost Honour levels of flexibility buffing the rest of the team.

Thats just my 2 cents :)

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On 4/8/2017 at 0:16 AM, Napoleon said:

Unless hammer covers honours bad matchups, i don't really see much of a point to him in a 9. But if he does cover her bad matchups then hes a really solid choice to bring into a 9. 

its the questions of "what are you bringing him for, and what are you giving up to bring him?"

I tend to lay out the most popular captains in a table and assign the captains i'd rather have into them. Then look to see where the weaknesses of an individual captain are. Because most tournament opponents are fish, alchs and union, these are the very most important ones to answer. Then follow up with the middle popularity guilds. Match ups like hunters can mostly be ignored for now (sorry hunters).

for me, double captain double mascot is basically something i will never play. Double captain yes, but not double mascot. Because when you bring dual captains you're trying to be flexible for match ups, but having only a single player you can sub out is the exact opposite of flexibility. 

 

I actually just ran in a tourny with Hammer in a double captain lineup (I used him the last couple tourny's too). Ive been trying to do a writeup but it was 3 days long and details tend to be forgotten and games tend to merge together. I ran Hammer "because" of the bad lineups for Honour. Now granted Honour is versatile enough that alot of matchups arent necessarily bad, but I think Hammers playstyle might be a different kind of counter that alot of ppl may be less prepared to deal with or may even work better in certain instances. As you stated in this current meta your going to see alot of Fish, Alchs, and Union(the main day had 4 Fish players alone and i ended up facing them twice) Using them as an example when i faced Fish i would usually take Hammer because its generally alot harder to outfootball them. Add this to the numerous dodges, fast movement, and 2 inch melee Honour can end up being a very sad panda apart from using 2 inf for her "Quick time" all the time. Hammer on the other hand can not only be a very good beatstick for a 2-2/1-4 game, but has access to a low KD and additional movement when needed. Also in the event Fish do dodge out of his range he can pop his heroic and that inf can be used to make the rest of your team faster and stronger too allowing you to do more with the inf allocated on them. This as opposed to "Those dirty Alchees" which i generally wouldnt use him for.

So when it comes to the question of what am i giving up to bring him, i usually give up Marbles and run a single mascot lineup. Because Wrecker works with both captains and always does work, and counter charge doesnt mean alot when 85 percent of the players your going to go up against are Fish, Engineers, and alchemists who just dodge into range or use 2 inch reach to nullify half of what your using him for without really having to think too much and eat time on clock.

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Double Captain/Mascot isn't terrible.  You're just left with choosing Brick/Mallet/Flint/oHarmony/Tower as your player lineup.  It's not ideal, but you're mostly only losing out on the Union choice. None of the other players are a huge loss, IMO.  I'd love a 10th slot though, particularly if the lineup was required to be 2/2/6 across the board.

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Been experimenting with Hammer in the current vassal tournament and must say I am having a blast with him. This is especially weird as during season 1 and 2 I was a big Honour fan and the times I did run Hammer I kind of wished I was using Honour.

My initial thought with him was to use him as the second wave and he himself buffs up wave 1 with hammer time.

The reason why I went this route is because I love Granite (or should I say gut and string) and her low movement can be crippling. But if you have a way to get round this (Hammer time and marked target are the main 2) then she can really setup some take outs.

My line-up at the current tournament is Hammer, Wrecker, Granite, Mallet, Tower, Minx, Flint, Vet Harmony and Chisel. But in all 3 games so far I have only used the first 6 (Hammer, Wrecker, Granite, Mallet, Tower, Minx). I know this is nowhere near an efficient roster, but my focus in this tournament was to see how well Hammer does as being a buffer at the beginning of games.

Three key things need to happen for me in turn one. A. I need the ball (don’t we all) B. I desperately need momentum (just one momentum is important) and C. Granite needs to be up the pitch.

The way I try to achieve this is to kick off with Granite, especially if there is fast ground she can abuse foundation with (managed to move 10" in total just from kick off). So kicking off obviously allows you to pick the side where there is reachable fast ground (if not then I elect to receive).

This situation has also allowed me on a couple of occasions to collect the ball back with granite after kicking off into an obstacle near the half way line (or from a 1" scatter) due to foundation (there was a ruling on the legality of this manoeuvre).

Now granted someone could easily get to granite and nab the ball off of her, but now that person is in reach of her (and most of your team) and so a 4 influenced granite will give you the momentum you need and possibly gut and stringing your first victim. If not then the back up plan is a key marked target from minx.

From there on your set, pop hammer time, get a nice tooled up, iron fisted and punishing marched mallet with 4 influence ready to wreck face (especially against the poor gut and stringed fellow). This has paid dividends in 2 of my games, one where I was able to reach Midas and take him down to 4 health ready for taking out beginning of turn 2 or the best case scenario, charge a gut and stringed vet spigot and wrap causing a phenomenal 12 damage. This works well on anyone in the team, iron fist and tooled up tower on a knocked down player, iron fist and tooled up granite, the hurt can come from anywhere. 

In 3 games so far I have taken out 14 players and scored 1 goal (lost 1 game to a very good morts player), this includes the scalps of Esters, Obulous and Midas.

The key for me getting so many takeouts is surprisingly wrecker. Having something so quick that can push people around is invaluable and he mainly hunts players that have already activated and pushes them into more of my players for mega crowed outs. Also having hammer be wave 2 tends to not get the attention he really deserves as when he starts flying in he just murders everything.

Special mention for minx. everyone knows how great snared is and even better screeching banshee ( I mean who doesn’t like some poor sap being knocked down, snared, gut and stringed and screeching bansheed for a -4 def debuff!) but back to the shadows has sooo much offensive potential. yes you could run away into cover, but in one case an opponent chose not to take the bait of using unpredictable movement for obulous when wrecker came into base to base. This allowed minx to furious into mist, do some damage and dodge 4" into base to base with obulous. This then allowed tower to walk in and pin obulous down for hammer to go to town.

Now this team has not come up against fish so unsure how well it would compete against them but my word its been fun.

Found a whole new love for Hammer, and Hammer time just turns you other players up to 11.

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1 hour ago, Monolith-Swats said:

Been experimenting with Hammer in the current vassal tournament and must say I am having a blast with him. This is especially weird as during season 1 and 2 I was a big Honour fan and the times I did run Hammer I kind of wished I was using Honour.

My initial thought with him was to use him as the second wave and he himself buffs up wave 1 with hammer time.

The reason why I went this route is because I love Granite (or should I say gut and string) and her low movement can be crippling. But if you have a way to get round this (Hammer time and marked target are the main 2) then she can really setup some take outs.

My line-up at the current tournament is Hammer, Wrecker, Granite, Mallet, Tower, Minx, Flint, Vet Harmony and Chisel. But in all 3 games so far I have only used the first 6 (Hammer, Wrecker, Granite, Mallet, Tower, Minx). I know this is nowhere near an efficient roster, but my focus in this tournament was to see how well Hammer does as being a buffer at the beginning of games.

Three key things need to happen for me in turn one. A. I need the ball (don’t we all) B. I desperately need momentum (just one momentum is important) and C. Granite needs to be up the pitch.

The way I try to achieve this is to kick off with Granite, especially if there is fast ground she can abuse foundation with (managed to move 10" in total just from kick off). So kicking off obviously allows you to pick the side where there is reachable fast ground (if not then I elect to receive).

This situation has also allowed me on a couple of occasions to collect the ball back with granite after kicking off into an obstacle near the half way line (or from a 1" scatter) due to foundation (there was a ruling on the legality of this manoeuvre).

Now granted someone could easily get to granite and nab the ball off of her, but now that person is in reach of her (and most of your team) and so a 4 influenced granite will give you the momentum you need and possibly gut and stringing your first victim. If not then the back up plan is a key marked target from minx.

From there on your set, pop hammer time, get a nice tooled up, iron fisted and punishing marched mallet with 4 influence ready to wreck face (especially against the poor gut and stringed fellow). This has paid dividends in 2 of my games, one where I was able to reach Midas and take him down to 4 health ready for taking out beginning of turn 2 or the best case scenario, charge a gut and stringed vet spigot and wrap causing a phenomenal 12 damage. This works well on anyone in the team, iron fist and tooled up tower on a knocked down player, iron fist and tooled up granite, the hurt can come from anywhere. 

In 3 games so far I have taken out 14 players and scored 1 goal (lost 1 game to a very good morts player), this includes the scalps of Esters, Obulous and Midas.

The key for me getting so many takeouts is surprisingly wrecker. Having something so quick that can push people around is invaluable and he mainly hunts players that have already activated and pushes them into more of my players for mega crowed outs. Also having hammer be wave 2 tends to not get the attention he really deserves as when he starts flying in he just murders everything.

Special mention for minx. everyone knows how great snared is and even better screeching banshee ( I mean who doesn’t like some poor sap being knocked down, snared, gut and stringed and screeching bansheed for a -4 def debuff!) but back to the shadows has sooo much offensive potential. yes you could run away into cover, but in one case an opponent chose not to take the bait of using unpredictable movement for obulous when wrecker came into base to base. This allowed minx to furious into mist, do some damage and dodge 4" into base to base with obulous. This then allowed tower to walk in and pin obulous down for hammer to go to town.

Now this team has not come up against fish so unsure how well it would compete against them but my word its been fun.

Found a whole new love for Hammer, and Hammer time just turns you other players up to 11.

Thanks for this write-up. Ive been trying to find a good place for Granite, i like her playstyle but have been having a hard time even considering her for an actual tourny list. Will have to try some of these ideas.

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I'm interested to see how your experiments with Hammer go, as I enjoy playing with him more than I do with Honour. I can't quite explain why, but it might just be that he's easier to play - less tricks and hard thinking to do, and even though he can be a blunt instrument, that 2/8" kick along with Ball Hog can surprise your opponent and get you goals. He can also be a ball retriever for a slow team. I never leave home without Flint, who wants to score T1, so I need someone else to pick it up from the kick off, which is either Minx or Hammer.

Recently I've been playing with Marbles and Brick supporting him, and between them those two can control an entire flank while the other 4 move away to score or lay the smack down. I've found that there are increasing times when it is better to waste INF and do nothing than to launch someone into the unknown for 1-2 MP or damage. Holding back Brick and wasting his 2 INF in a game against Morts the other day would have prevented Scalpel getting a TO and goal the next turn (Goad with Brick 4" behind Marbles out of Scalpels range is nasty).

I'm considering dropping Honour and Harmony for a Hammer-only list, which would free up two spaces in an already tight list, possibly letting me take a 2nd mascot and vHarmony for Alchemist games (used her at weekend, and she save Mallet from vKat twice, removing conditions several times and taking a couple of hit for him to keep him alive long enough to heal and beat down vKat for Brick and vHarmony to finish off).

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