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CrusaderEm

Help needed vs butchers

32 posts in this topic

Hey all! I've been out of guild ball for a while(since season 1), and coming back for season 3 masons feels a little... Well, my immediate gut reaction to seeing some of the changes was a sad face(R.I.P. Tooled up Marbles). For me, the hardest part about playing masons was choosing who to bring along. Each member offered so much, and now that feels even more spread out. But that's neither here nor there. 

I need your help, good people. I have to set up the scene here, because a lot is riding on this. Back in season one, I played a few games against my room mate. He played alchemists and I beat him every time. This is the kind of guy who throws a fit when he loses. Slams doors, swears, he's about one step away from the guy who throws models at you. One time I decided that I didn't feel like playing after I had told him maybe before I left for work and he lit my paper models on fire. As bad as that sounds, he's absolutely insufferable when he wins. Gloats for months. I made the mistake of losing to him in another miniatures game(which he cheated in), and I still haven't heard the end of it. 

So I know what you're thinking. Don't play against him. It's not that easy. He's the only person I have to play against. Two of my other friends started to get into it, but only ever played one practice game. In order to play, I have to play against this guy. And I have to stomp him into the dirt to convince my other friends to play again. 

So this guy has nearly endless reserves of money, and can buy any teams or players he wants, and has done so to counter my masons. He's so desperate to beat me, he switched to butchers because he heard it's a strong counter. I have to defeat him. If not to bring more players to the pitch, then purely out of spite. But I'm rusty. Very rusty. And all the games I remember against butchers left a very bad taste in my mouth. I've been going over the models but can't really come up with a good team comp. Any suggestions or strategies would be greatly appreciated. I own all masons models except vetHarmony, and have no union, but I'm not above forking out a little more cash to bring this guy down. He will pretty surely be building his team to specifically counter me and the masons armor game. 6 man team format. Let's take this guy down together. Thanks in advance! 

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First of all Id recommend trying the "Vassal" program. I personally havnt tried it (I plan on doing it soon) but it allows you play online against other players, there is even a thread for it and to my understanding they had their first online tourney that turned out really well a week or so ago. Granted this will not give you the ability to use your models, but it will let you practice against other teams, play with more agreeable players, and get tips from those players. While still allowing you to play with your models against your "friend". Tourny's are also super fun if there are any in your state and you dont by any means have to be a good player to participate in them.

As far as lineups are concerned you will never outbeat butchers so you will want a scoring roster. Captain will depend on your playstyle this would by my personal lineup:

Honour (Scoring, momentum, damage)

Harmony (Scoring, Linked)

Brick (Defense)

Flint (Scoring)

Wrecker (free re positioning to break up crowd outs)

Tower (midfielder, free def stance for inevitable charges, tooled up) or Mallet (2 inch reach, momentum, Knockdown)

or if your playstyle is Hammer:

Hammer (Scoring, Damage, Knockdown)

Flint (Scoring)

Wrecker (free re positioning to break up crowd outs)

Brick (Defense)

Tower (midfielder, free def stance for inevitable charges, tooled up)

Mist (Scoring)

Note: When playing with Honour roster be careful with her because if she gets killed Harmony quickly becomes a paperweight so positioning is key in that lineup

 

CrusaderEm likes this

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Thank you! That first list is really close to what I was mulling over. The Wrecker pick surprised me a bit, but now that I think about it, it makes a lot of sense. The toss up between tower and mallet is the tough one for me. I love mallet and what he brings to the team, but with the changes to tower, I'm really thinking I'm gonna need the free defensive stances. 

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Wrecker has his other uses with 10" MOV. He can play keep away, pick up a dropped ball( and drop it again if you have no focus to pass it.)

Even if he can't escape a 2" inch melee zone with Ramming/Roller that means he's Ganging Up.  

So his annoyance factor multiplies if you don't get locked into his crazy 2" Push schtick.

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Wrecker is great, but against Butchers, just be careful any of them can make short work of Wrecker and get him out of the way. Yes, it wastes 3-4 inf from your opponent for 1 vp, but you can lose wrecker very quickly and will have to get him back into the game again. 

Tower vs Mallet is always a tough one. I usually choose Mallet because of Singled Out, damage on charge, Football Legend, and kd. Plus the 3 inch reach is amazing. 

Final thought is, I think I would rather not play the game than play this "friend" of yours, especially after the burning of your paper models part. WTF... 

Seacitygamer and Lord Antoine like this

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Would it be detrimental to trade out brick so I could take mallet and tower? I haven't played him since before he got tough hide, and I know counter charge is really nice to have... I guess I'm answering my own question here. Tower is more defensive, but mallet helps that ball game. Tower sounds like the safer pick, and I guess being able to push people out of position and take out an enemy or two if I really need to will be nice. Thanks for the help, guys. 

As far as not playing him, I get it. I told myself I wouldn't again after the paper model incident. He seems to have calmed down a bit since his gaming circle called him out on it. I figure I should give him at least one more shot. It has been like 2 years. Plus it feels really good to beat him, I'm not gonna lie. We have like an evil rival dynamic going on. Haha

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4 hours ago, CrusaderEm said:

Would it be detrimental to trade out brick so I could take mallet and tower? I haven't played him since before he got tough hide, and I know counter charge is really nice to have... I guess I'm answering my own question here. Tower is more defensive, but mallet helps that ball game. Tower sounds like the safer pick, and I guess being able to push people out of position and take out an enemy or two if I really need to will be nice. Thanks for the help, guys. 

As far as not playing him, I get it. I told myself I wouldn't again after the paper model incident. He seems to have calmed down a bit since his gaming circle called him out on it. I figure I should give him at least one more shot. It has been like 2 years. Plus it feels really good to beat him, I'm not gonna lie. We have like an evil rival dynamic going on. Haha

I think you've got Tower and Brick mixed up. 

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3 hours ago, Von Ether said:

I think you've got Tower and Brick mixed up. 

Sorry, no I meant that I guess brick is probably too good to pass up, so I went back to the decision of taking either Tower or Mallet.

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I personally feel Mallet is too good to pass up, so the decision is often Tower or Brick. Brick is great because he never gets inf and just sits there to guard, enable Marbles, and protects Harmony. Tower can help a lot without inf with just his heroic, or with 1 inf to tool up or defend. Both are great and it just depends on what type of butchers team you play against. 

I think against Ox, brick is probably better since they like to clump together more and the first person that engages your front line should enable Brick to charge, depending on placement. Against Fillet, Tower may work better due to defend the ground and sturdy, plus his counters are very dangerous for Fillet due to the pushes. 

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I like Tower and Hammer into Butchers. Sturdy aura and each have a 2" push on 1 hit is stellar for counter attacking most butcher models with their relative lack of 2" melee. Especially against Ox.

 

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This is going terribly. He won the kick off and hid the ball the whole game. It's just been a slaughter since then. There's too much movement on their side. Tenderizer with counter charge protecting unpredictable movement brisket. Couldn't touch the ball. Bricking didn't help as boar and boiler ran in and destroyed everyone by themselves. That was really a bad match. Ended 2-12. I made a few mistakes, but in the end it was just a meat grinder(pardon the pun).  I might try Hammer on the next one.

The consistent 20 damage on Boar's turn was just... Buh. 

wrenwood likes this

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It's definitely a rough matchup for Masons, and I've never found the games against butchers to be easy. Key is to spread out if it's Fillet, and focus on killing boiler or ox if it's an Ox team. 

Tower is pretty spectacular against butchers because of free defensive stance, sturdy aura, and that double push equivalent on 1. 

I wouldn't do brick unless you can position marbles and him well. 

CrusaderEm likes this

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... Mallet is amazing. I won 12-9 but he essentially handed me the ball in the beginning. Really close game. 

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Firstly, I think i would use the old 'metal model in a sock' trick and beat the shit out of him with it!!!

Secondly where do you live, if you are literally anywhere near me, you are more than welcome to come play me!!!

The guys sounds like a douche 

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44 minutes ago, Puber88 said:

Firstly, I think i would use the old 'metal model in a sock' trick and beat the shit out of him with it!!!

Secondly where do you live, if you are literally anywhere near me, you are more than welcome to come play me!!!

The guys sounds like a douche 

Haha. He's actually gotten a lot better apparently. I could tell he was getting a little salty, but he kept it in check. Started trying to cheat. He's bad with charges. Steps through models. 

I live in Sacramento, California. In the USA. 

Still pretty jazzed about that game. Flint scored all 3 goals and got 2 screamers. 

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I find even with Brick's tough hide the Butchers can quite easily take him out, especially with Boar and Ox around.  If they are playing the deadball, with Brisket, definitely take Mallet to retrieve the ball or use Honour to trigger UM and use Quick Time back into Melee. 

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On 2/17/2017 at 6:46 PM, CrusaderEm said:

Haha. He's actually gotten a lot better apparently. I could tell he was getting a little salty, but he kept it in check. Started trying to cheat. He's bad with charges. Steps through models. 

I live in Sacramento, California. In the USA. 

Still pretty jazzed about that game. Flint scored all 3 goals and got 2 screamers. 

Congrats on the win!  Dude, if you live in SacTown, come play with us when we have events at Fairfield (Outflank) and Vacaville (Forgotten Path Games).  If you're not in the NorCal Guild Ball FB group yet, just join and we'll get you some less douchey guys to play against. :P 

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3 hours ago, kryzak said:

Congrats on the win!  Dude, if you live in SacTown, come play with us when we have events at Fairfield (Outflank) and Vacaville (Forgotten Path Games).  If you're not in the NorCal Guild Ball FB group yet, just join and we'll get you some less douchey guys to play against. :P 

I am in the NorCal Guild Ball group. For some reason I thought the only place anyone played was heretic in SF.

For sure! I'll have to head down there if I have days off. Work schedule is pretty awful at the moment. 

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13 hours ago, CrusaderEm said:

I am in the NorCal Guild Ball group. For some reason I thought the only place anyone played was heretic in SF.

For sure! I'll have to head down there if I have days off. Work schedule is pretty awful at the moment. 

Oh cool! I post weekly "where to play" info in the group. Outflank plays every Sunday afternoon and has a great community and store. Should be close enough to you if you have the day off and have a car. 

Heretic just gets a lot of posts because that's where many of the more frequent posters play, but it's definitely not the only store in that area that has regular GB nights. :-)

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I'm from the Sac area and I played at A-1 Comics in Roseville and Great Escape Games in Sac near Arden. A lot of the Warmahordes guys play. 

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I'd be interested in playing at A-1. What days/times do you play there? 

I'm actually specifically trying to stay away from Great Escape. That's where my room mate plays and the few times I went I got the feeling they... don't like newcomers? Or maybe it was just that my room mate had talked me up to be this horrible person. A few people I met were nice, but I kinda felt unwelcome before I even went. 

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30 minutes ago, CrusaderEm said:

I'd be interested in playing at A-1. What days/times do you play there? 

I'm actually specifically trying to stay away from Great Escape. That's where my room mate plays and the few times I went I got the feeling they... don't like newcomers? Or maybe it was just that my room mate had talked me up to be this horrible person. A few people I met were nice, but I kinda felt unwelcome before I even went. 

Welcome to the wonder that is your LGS. Just go in and play a game. Sure there will be assholes but most of them will be quite wonderful, even if they don't appear at first. Social skills and nerding don't always mix :-D. 

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1 hour ago, CrusaderEm said:

I'd be interested in playing at A-1. What days/times do you play there? 

I'm actually specifically trying to stay away from Great Escape. That's where my room mate plays and the few times I went I got the feeling they... don't like newcomers? Or maybe it was just that my room mate had talked me up to be this horrible person. A few people I met were nice, but I kinda felt unwelcome before I even went. 

I moved from there last August up to Oregon, or else I'd be happy to play you. The community was growing when I moved. I don't know how it is now

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