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340 posts in this topic

Hello,

in this thread we are looking for official clarifications for any rule (parts of the) community don't feel comfortable that they understood them!

Anything that has been officially clarified, I'll add here:

Cheers

Replect

 

PS.: If you have more basic questions, you probably find the answer in that "Quick Guide":

 

 

Ashraam, Joplick, CuriousAI and 1 other like this

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I haven't had a chance to read and think about all of them, but #3 is pretty easy.

All the spawn/terrain nodes have their own special symbols. I'd be willing to bet none of the nodes adjacent to an entryway have these symbols, thus they are only Basic nodes. So they won't be used for anything other than movement or entry, because traps don't even spawn adjacent to entry walls.

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You would lose that bet though! ;)

Just look at the tile at the lower left on page 7, both tiles adjacent to the bonfire tile on page 8 or the one on page 10. All these have either one terrain or spawn node adjacent to the doorway... (All 3 nodes on a wall with a door count as adjacent to it in general, if that is not clear!)

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19 minutes ago, Replect said:

You would lose that bet though! ;)

Just look at the tile at the lower left on page 7, both tiles adjacent to the bonfire tile on page 8 or the one on page 10. All these have either one terrain or spawn node adjacent to the doorway... (All 3 nodes on a wall with a door count as adjacent to it in general, if that is not clear!)

Yes, it looks like you're correct!

But the statement "All basic nodes that are adjacent to doorways are entry nodes as well as being basic nodes."  is still really all the clarification you need. It really implies that Basic nodes are what you use as Entry nodes. So spawn/terrain nodes cannot be used as entry nodes because they aren't Basic.

Joplick likes this

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About #3 I guess you are right.

Based on what I've seen related to other topics, I just felt like it could be that they basically just forgot to mention the other node types...

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22 hours ago, Replect said:

1. Dodging
The rulebook is saying "Gather dice equal to the symbols shown in the equipped items' Dodge.".

If all of your equipped items show 0 Dodge, could you actually still decide to dodge? If so, would you basically roll 0 dice, obviously take the full damage every time and move to an adjacent node? Or do you always have a 1 dice to dodge and any item will just increase it to 1 + symbols shown in the equipped items' Dodge?

  If you have 0 dodge on all your equipment you roll zero Dice and therefore automatically take full damage. You MUST spend one stamina and CAN/may move one node though. 
 

2. Push

The dicussion about "Push" started with the "Boss Activation Example" on page 30, specifically Stage 6.

I've added squares for the arcs and circles for all adjacent nodes as of rulebook to support the discussion, since it's difficult to talk/explain something here without any visualization: http://imgur.com/a/DTTyH

In general, about adjacent it says: "An adjacent node is any node located directly next to the model’s current node – horizontally, vertically, or diagonally." (p.10)

Which counts in stage 6 of that boss example for the nodes I've put that circle on.

About (attack) push - what we have here - it says in general:
"If the Push icon appears on an attack, the model (or models) hit by the attack are pushed. The pushed model or models are moved onto an adjacent node chosen by the players." (p.21)

About bosses I only see the need to stay in the same arc when being pushed off of a boss's node: "Similarly, when a character is pushed off of a boss’s node, the character must remain in the same arc they were in prior to the push." (p.28)

The description for the stage 6 picture is saying "If the character chooses to dodge, they can move to any adjacent node. In this case, the character chooses to block and is pushed yet again onto an adjacent node in the same arc.".

In this example it doesn't really makes a difference, since there are only options for the character within the arc(s) he is already in, but in general why "in the same arc"? The rule on page 28 only talks about "pushed off of a boss's node", which is not the case here, he is on a different node...
And why are the 2 adjacent nodes I've put circles on beside those that were already highlighted in green aren't valid? The rulebook is not saying anything like you always get pushed backwards or something like that, all it says is that a model gets "moved onto an adjacent node chosen by the players", which is valid for all 4 circles I've put in there.

Yeah they seem to have made a mistake with this example as the rulebooks only state you have to be pushed into a node of the same arc after a movement push. After an attack push the rules say you choose any adjacent node. Hmm 

Also, talking about (movement) push. With the rule as written, if a non-boss is pushing me (by movement) I even could move to the node the encounter is coming from, since the rule is only saying "moved onto an adjacent node chosen by the players". Correct? For a (movement) push by a boss this wouldn't work, since I would not move onto an node within the same arc, so this is just about (movement) push by a non-boss.

  With a non-boss you can choose to be pushed onto any adjacent node you choose, so yes.  

3. Entry nodes

The rulebook is saying "All basic nodes that are adjacent to doorways are entry nodes as well as being basic nodes . Entry nodes are where characters are placed when they enter the tile.". There is no such note for the terrain/spawn nodes. Is that on purpose and does mean terrain/spawn nodes (even though nothing spawned on them) can never be entry nodes?

  This has already been discussed  

4. Resting at the bonfire

You don't have to rest at the bonfire to use any of the other options (Treasure Deck, Inventory, Soul Cache, Blacksmith Andre, The Firekeeper) the bonfire tile provides, correct?

 Correct, the rules say when you RETURN to the bonfire you can do these things. Nothing about the need to rest at the bonfire  

If you have defeated a (mini) boss, you do the part "Setup after the mini boss" (p.9). The rulebook is not saying so, so I guess the answer is "You don't", but will you automatically rest at the bonfire after you've defeated a (mini) boss and will have your tokens reset? Or do you still have to choose to do so after you've reset the sparks (step 2 - Bonfire Sparks), which results in sacrificing one spark right away? And if you don't rest automatically and don't choose to rest, you won't have your tokens reset (considering you used them before)?

 
You don't reset the sparks dial after a mini-boss. Repeating Step 2 means to just place the dial, after adding the spark you got from defeating the non-boss. You can then rest and spend the one spark you just gained.  
 

5. Encounter

"When the party enters a new tile, flip the encounter card on that tile face up. This marks the beginning of an encounter (p. 19). The party can freely move through tiles that already have their encounter cards face up."(p.16)

On p. 19 about this:
"Once the party has entered an encounter, it cannot leave the encounter until either the party or the encounter is defeated."

It's not really clear if "cannot leave the encounter" + "The party can freely move through tiles that already have their encounter cards face up."  means the fight could take place across multiple previously explored tiles? Or does "cannot leave the encounter" stand for "encounter = only the tile which triggered the encounter" while "The party can freely move through tiles that already have their encounter cards face up." only means that the party can freely move on cleared tiles - if not in an encounter! - to get to tiles they haven't explored yet in a different direction or to get back to the bonfire etc.?

  Sorry I don't quite get what you're asking here. If you have cleared an encounter by defeating all enemies, the encounter card us left face up, indicating there are no enemies, so you can move through without fighting etc. 

Each encounter only takes place in the tile the encounter card was drawn on. You can dash through an encounter, after all enemy movements have resolved, with no red cubes being heated (if any were received) , but when you leave the tile the encounter card is turned face down and the enemies are removed. You have to fight them/dash through if you come through the tile again. 
 

Hope that helps a bit. There's a few issues in there still I think though. 
 

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@Goseki

About #1:

I think so too, but it does feel like the rulebook could be more clear on that one. This one was actually not a question on my end initially, I just gathered all these in the Kickstarter comments nobody is really sure about.

About #2:

About the (movement) push by a non-boss and being able to move (get pushed) on the node that non-boss is just coming from: You confirm this, based on the rulebook. But do they really mean it or just didn't think about that someone would come up with that?

I mean, I could even say that when getting hit by an (attack) push by an encounter who stands on an adjacent node, that I move on the encounter's node, since the rule is only saying "move onto an adjacent node", which is the case in that situation.

About #4:

What you say may be true for the "Campaign" mode, but not for the basic rules, which say on page 9:

"After the characters defeat the mini boss, perform setup steps 1 and 2 again as detailed above."

Step 2 on page 8 says:

"The bonfire has a limited number of sparks based on the number of players . Place the spark dial on the Bonfire tile with the dial displaying the correct number from the table below."

So, if I've defeated the mini-boss without loosing any sparks (first try so to speak) but probably using all tokens, I would have to spend a spark from my in that sense still intial pool with what the rules are saying right now. I don't have an issue with that, I'm just questioning if they didn't mention anything about that on purpose or just didn't think about and forgot to mention it.

About #5:

Your response "Each encounter only takes place in the tile the encounter card was drawn on."  is what that question is about. For some this doesn't seem to be as clear as you say it is! :) I didn't question that initially, but someone brought it up and after re-reading the rules I felt it is a valid question (If the encounter only takes place in the tile the encounter card was drawn on or could you move "while being" in an encounter to previously cleared tiles (encounter card face up) and pull that encounter to those tiles kind of - increasing the area you fight in so to speak). I guess you are right, but we don't feel that it is 100% obvious.

The following response with "dashing-through" again counts only for the "Campaign" mode though...

 

In general we were hoping for some clarification from official side, since all the questions couldn't be answered 100% just by looking at what the rulebook is saying. All these answeres in the Kickstarter comments and such feel more like "assumptions" than "facts".

Some questions are the result of "the rulebook is not saying anything about it", which you can either just respond to with "if the rulebook isn't saying anything, it's because its not allowed" (like with the entry nodes related to terrain/spawn nodes), while others could say "they probably didn't mention certain things, because they just forgot about them or thought it was clear even for those who weren't involved in the development process" (which I could easily imagine related to some questions - like the "Push" topic where I could even move to the encounter's node if he pushes me with an attack from an adjacent node, since the rulebook isn't saying anything else. I don't believe that's how the mechanic is meant to work, rather that they didn't think someone would come up with it).

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5 hours ago, Replect said:

About #3 I guess you are right.

Based on what I've seen related to other topics, I just felt like it could be that they basically just forgot to mention the other node types...

No worries. I think it probably could have been written a little more clearly.

Either way, this is a good thread. Discussion is good because it not only helps people understand the rules better, but it could also help SFG to know where the rules could be clarified.

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4 minutes ago, Ashraam said:

..but it could also help SFG to know where the rules could be clarified.

This is actually my main goal!

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There just came up another good question in the KS comments I'll put in here:

7. Souls reward for defeating (mini) boss

First about what the rulebook says about sparks on page 8:

"When the players are defeated in an encounter (p. 19) or choose to rest at the bonfire (p. 15), turn the dial down one number. Once the dial reads 0, the characters can no longer rest there, and the next time a character is killed, the game is lost."

Now what if the party defeats a (mini) boss on page 19:

"If the encounter is a boss encounter, add 1 soul per character to the soul cache for each spark remaining on the bonfire."

This seems to be another oversight, because taking the rule as it is, it means you don't earn any souls if your party should be out of sparks. That sounds odd if you ask me and like something they just didn't realize when putting that in the rulebook...

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Goseki said:

You get a spark for beating the mini-boss.

You are again talking about "Campaign" mode though! :)

 

EDIT:

And also getting the spark as of rulebook (p.33) would occur after you got the souls reward:

"Each time a mini boss, main boss, or mega boss is defeated, 
the party gains 1 spark instead of resetting the bonfire’s 
sparks."

The reset occurs after getting the souls reward, and since this rule replaces the reset part, it still occurs in the same order.

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1 hour ago, Replect said:

There just came up another good question in the KS comments I'll put in here:

7. Souls reward for defeating (mini) boss

First about what the rulebook says about sparks on page 8:

"When the players are defeated in an encounter (p. 19) or choose to rest at the bonfire (p. 15), turn the dial down one number. Once the dial reads 0, the characters can no longer rest there, and the next time a character is killed, the game is lost."

Now what if the party defeats a (mini) boss on page 19:

"If the encounter is a boss encounter, add 1 soul per character to the soul cache for each spark remaining on the bonfire."

This seems to be another oversight, because taking the rule as it is, it means you don't earn any souls if your party should be out of sparks. That sounds odd if you ask me and like something they just didn't realize when putting that in the rulebook...

 

 

 

I remember during one of the Q&A sessions quite a while back there was a comment about these being "bonus" souls for defeating the boss. I think that means you probably get normal encounter rewards plus the bonus if applicable. This assumes it wasn't changed since then, of course.

It could definitely use clarification either way.

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I don't know if they changed it, but all the rulebook is saying about the reward (not "Campaign" mode!) is:

"If the party defeats all the enemies and no characters are killed, the party wins. Remove all black and red cubes from the characters’ endurance bars (p. 20). Then:
• If the encounter is not a boss encounter, add 2 souls per character to the soul cache.
• If the encounter is a boss encounter, add 1 soul per character to the soul cache for each spark remaining on the bonfire."

No word about that you get a general reward and the first is explicitly for non-bosses.

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2 minutes ago, Replect said:

I don't know if they changed it, but all the rulebook is saying about the reward (not "Campaign" mode!) is:

"If the party defeats all the enemies and no characters are killed, the party wins. Remove all black and red cubes from the characters’ endurance bars (p. 20). Then:
• If the encounter is not a boss encounter, add 2 souls per character to the soul cache.
• If the encounter is a boss encounter, add 1 soul per character to the soul cache for each spark remaining on the bonfire."

No word about that you get a general reward and the first is explicitly for non-bosses.

 

Yeah, that's where I was saying they may have changed it. It doesn't make sense to me to potentially have no reward though, which is why I thought their intent was to have the regular reward + the bonus, per the comments they made months ago. (I wonder if I can still find that...)

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I would be surprised if that is their intent, I assume they really just missed to cover it one way or the other.

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They could be trying to replicate you and a boss killing each other in the same blow? In that event you get no souls, but have defeated the boss. . . That sounds like a stretch. I'm not wild about the number of souls you get from a boss being a variable. I'm guessing it's a balance issue because if you've gone through all of your sparks that means that you have gone through encounters multiple times and had the potential to farm quite a few extra souls, considering a boss will never yield much more souls than a single grunt encounter. That actually makes sense now that I think about it.

If you make a perfect run on the map as presented in the diagrams in the rule book on pg. 8 with 4 characters, you will complete 4 encounters (if you go for all of them). That nets you 32 souls. Then, you beat the boss with all your sparks remaining. That's 8 more souls. 40 in total. 

If you were to, instead, die in the boss fight (assuming you had spent all of your souls prior to the boss and didn't drop any), you would still have gotten 32 souls from the encounters. You would then need to clear 2 more encounters to get back to the boss, netting 16 more souls. Then, if you kill the boss, you have 1 spark left and get 4 souls. That's 52 souls, 12 more than you're getting from one shoting the boss.

If you don't kill it the second try either and have to make the run again, you get an additional 16 from the two encounters and 0 form the boss fight. That's 64 in total for a run where you use all of your embers. If you one shot the boss you only end up with 40. I can see why they'd want to balance that. This is all of course assuming you never died to grunts.

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@Kethith

That sounds like a pretty good explanation indeed... As you said though, only if you will only rest after you have cleared at least all encounters on the way to the boss without dying or only ever died in the boss encounter. 

Even then, it still sounds like it could be a decision on purpose by SFG and not an oversight necessarily... Still, any kind of official confirmation would be very much appreciated.

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Not getting any souls for defeating a boss or miniboss seems contra-intuitive. I would think that the "bonus" must be what was intended. However i see the point in the soul-farming example above. But looking at it as a 'probable isolated event' (it would seem likely to loose at least once to a boss regardless of party size) so it could go either way. 

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Hi guys and gals,

Firstly, rest assured I'm monitoring everything rules related within the comments section. Just because I don't say anything doesn't mean I'm not reading them!

Anyway, here we go!

1) It is, as it says. If you have 0 dodge, you have 0 dodge. You can still choose to dodge, but assuming it's a dodge of 1 or higher you will automatically fail. In corner case scenarios this can be a viable thing to do.

2) This is more of a legacy thing than anything else, the diagram and some lines of text were updated a few weeks back following some blind playtesting and proofing.

Page 21, 3rd paragraph now reads:
'If the Push icon appears on an attack, the model (or
models) hit by the attack are pushed. The pushed model or
models are moved onto an adjacent node that is farther from
the attacking model. If there are multiple nodes farther from the
attacking model, the players choose the node.'


The diagram/caption on page 30 now reads/looks like this:
Stage6.jpg

Note: You are not restricted by arcs on attacks that contain pushes, you are restricted by arcs on movement that contains pushes.

3) Terrain/Spawn Nodes are not Entry nodes, irrelevant of whether something spawns on them or not. The wording of this is entirely intentional.

4) Another one that was added following blind playtesting, the following sentence can be found on page 15 of the printed book:
'When the players set up the tiles again after defeating a mini boss, place the characters on the Bonfire tile. They rest at the bonfire (without using a spark) before continuing their journey.

5) 'Cannot leave the encounter' means just that. The encounter takes place on the single tile they spawn on, you cannot leave this tile during the encounter.

6) Short version, this is the way we felt it worked best during playtesting. Can it be done in a multitude of ways? Yes, and if you wish to do it another way you can. But this is the way we felt the game performed best, which is why we went with it for our rulebook.

7) If you have 0 Sparks, you would get 0 Souls for defeating a boss. Bosses drop guaranteed loot cards upon defeating them, which we feel if reward enough when playing the 'standard game'. The Souls given from remaining Sparks is simply a bonus. This was a concious decision that was made, in campaign play however... Where we've intentionally tried to make the game match up to the video games you can get huge amounts of Souls from bosses. For example, if a party of 4 defeats a boss when they have 10 Sparks thats 40 Souls!

Hope this covers everything, and fear not... I'm always watching, I might not always say anything... But I'm always watching. Once I have the time I'll be making a 'Collected Clarifications' thread to pin and lock on the Dark Souls discussion page with any rules queries that seem to come up regularly.

Cheers,
Alex

Replect, Ashraam, Sart66 and 3 others like this

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1 hour ago, alxndrhll said:

 For example, if a party of 4 defeats a boss when they have 10 Sparks thats 40 Souls!
 

So there is no hard limit on sparks in campaign? =)

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14 minutes ago, tobgoblin said:

 

So there is no hard limit on sparks in campaign? =)

Nope, off the top of my head the dial goes up to 16 (or somewhere in that area) as realistically we couldn't ever see it going much higher than 10... And even that's probably over shooting it. But there is no hard cap on it.

Within campaign play we have a 'up to a maximum of the starting number of sparks' clause. If you wish to ignore it, you can... but I don't really have to say that, it's a board game and houseruling has/will always be 'a thing' :).

Cheers,
Alex

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1 hour ago, alxndrhll said:

Hi guys and gals,

Firstly, rest assured I'm monitoring everything rules related within the comments section. Just because I don't say anything doesn't mean I'm not reading them!

Anyway, here we go!

Cheers,
Alex

 

Thanks so much for the clarifications, Alex!

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@alxndrhll

Hi Alex,

as just commented on KS, thank you for taking your time and answering these questions out there! I know you don't have to, so much appreciated!

We can assume you guys are reading/listening, but without any response, we just don't know necessarily... So, if we keep asking and such, than just because we care what is happening with you and this game! :)

About 7)

A party could have 10 sparks at some point, assuming a solo player for example would blast through 5 bosses, which means on top of his 5 starting sparks, he would have gotten 1 spark for each boss, which then makes a total of 10. But he could not buy any sparks until he looses at least 6 of these 10 in that situation (considering he doesn't house-rule it obviously)... I hope, no matter of the party size, that is a rare thing to ever happen, even close! Otherwise: Game is too easy! :P

 

Again, thank you very much! Can't wait to have this game in my hands! Before shipping, the only thing missing to fix our addiction is a proper gameplay-video I guess! ;) 

 

Cheers,

Steven

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