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Fujin

Season 3 Creation changes

30 minutes ago, LeadDiceandBeers said:

Bit of a buff, bit of a nerf. Pretty much as expected. 

I'd be interested to see Dirges card as Vileswarm is unchanged.

Agree.

I don't expect Dirge's Dark Doubts to exist in its current form with the decreased cost to Creation. Though maybe it will.

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38 minutes ago, Mr Hall said:

Why wouldn't it?  It's good, but he's easy to take out, so usually worth it for VPS

NPE. People don't like control abilities. I don't agree, but the consensus among most players seems to be things like dark doubts and Rigor Mortis are "not fun".

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5 hours ago, Dracilic said:

NPE. People don't like control abilities. I don't agree, but the consensus among most players seems to be things like dark doubts and Rigor Mortis are "not fun".

I'm in the same boat, being a player who plays control style rosters (lists in other games too) it's a normal game plan and play style seen everywhere.

Just have to learn to play against it.

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I don't like control abilities either particularly. But you know what else I don't like....

Fillet, hammer, harpoon, unpredictable movement used against me, Teams with a plethora of 3+ kick stat, vitriol, midas, not ever receiving the kick off, coin, blackheart, Gutter... There are a few other things I could add. But my point is that there are lots of things we don't like. You have to deal with them. Control is what the morticians do.

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1 hour ago, Totes McAwesome said:

I don't like control abilities either particularly. But you know what else I don't like....

Fillet, hammer, harpoon, unpredictable movement used against me, Teams with a plethora of 3+ kick stat, vitriol, midas, not ever receiving the kick off, coin, blackheart, Gutter... There are a few other things I could add. But my point is that there are lots of things we don't like. You have to deal with them. Control is what the morticians do.

This guy gets it.  #GitGudNub 😉

Fujin, Totes McAwesome and WarPanda like this

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I kind of see it changing just for the reason of why would you kill him.  1 vp and a loss of 4 mp hardy seems worth it.  If it changes i could see its just 2 mp loss vs 4.  Or if the opponent kills dirge morticians gain the mp instead.  It is the same reason loved creature changed, to give incentive for folks to kill the mascots.

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Pro: creation now costs 1 less MP.

Con: Created mascots now give 1 VP every time they die.  All other factions get to bring back their mascots.

 

I see this as a nerf, overall.  Anyone else?  I'm fine with nerfs, but, personally, I'd rather have a good mascot that comes back on the edge of the board than a mediocre mascot that can get right back into the thick of the action to be taken out again for more VPs.

LeadDiceandBeers and Moefear like this

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7 hours ago, WizardOfWit said:

I see this as a nerf, overall.  Anyone else?  I'm fine with nerfs, but, personally, I'd rather have a good mascot that comes back on the edge of the board than a mediocre mascot that can get right back into the thick of the action to be taken out again for more VPs.

Basically this.
You spend one momentum to get your mascot at full health and in-position
-OR-
You bring them back on in your deployment zone and spend one momentum healing them back up to full health.

But even with that, the bonus isn't having the mascot in position, it's the fact that you get to choose.

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They could have left Creation the same - 2MP, base contact, full HP, doesn't give up VPs.

So why did they change it? Streamlining the rules to fit with other mascots for the sake of simplicity? Dark Doubts OP? Exploding rats OP? Because based on stats/playbooks alone I'm not sure our mascots even remotely pull their weight by comparison to what other guilds can field. Yes, inter-guild comparisons are somewhat pointless, but I'm curious as to how the perceived worth and value of Character Traits has been taken into account here.

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Although I agree on the face of it are mascots don't seem as strong as other options, they do have there perks. Dirge brings singled out which although requires the charge to get it. Does allow us to focus down a player for the take out in a turn. The bag of feathers also has a really good ball retrieval range. Plus if your opponent is spending influence to take it out they aren't focusing on something else.

Having only used the rats once I can't comment to much. But the double momentus push is a handy reposition tool if nothing else. For me the issue with the rats is they require vet Graves. With regular Graves getting a tickle and Tooled up, I am not so sure vet Graves will be in my team much.

Recreation is still a strong ability. Anyone else who has there mascot taken out before there activation loses it for that turn. They will also be spending 1mp to heal them up as soon as possible. However we can bring them back earlier if there "controller" hasn't activated. Although with Silence this is unlikely I admit as he is usually an early activation in the turn (but I digress).  We have the ability to bring the mascot back in the turn they where taken out, but also to reposition them on the board if we move the controller first. Although situational it allows us to increase the threat range of say vileswarm by 7". Which again although situational is certainly a thing.

Don't forget that Dirge also makes silence a football king or Cosset just more mental. As mentioned in a previous post cross guild comparison is pointless. Other guilds look at us and wish they had Ghast for example. We have to use the tools we have, not the ones we want. At least there not mainspring!! 

 

Skinnydookie likes this

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On 10/23/2016 at 2:45 AM, Fujin said:

They could have left Creation the same - 2MP, base contact, full HP, doesn't give up VPs.

So why did they change it? Streamlining the rules to fit with other mascots for the sake of simplicity? Dark Doubts OP? Exploding rats OP? Because based on stats/playbooks alone I'm not sure our mascots even remotely pull their weight by comparison to what other guilds can field. Yes, inter-guild comparisons are somewhat pointless, but I'm curious as to how the perceived worth and value of Character Traits has been taken into account here.

Why did they change it?  That is certainly the question. At least online, there have been vocal complaints about the power of the Mortician's Guild. I wonder if this is a way to curb the power of the Guild in a way that's not as overt as sweeping changes to major players would be. Before the change I'd say I actually quite liked Dirge and while he wasn't the best mascot ever, I was happy to take him. Now?  Less so. Vileswarm is in an even worse position IMO, as his routine was based on suicidal charges and explosions.

Fujin likes this

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Well, you can get in two suicide charges for the same amount of VP loss as before and with less momentum investment. The Engineer's Bug Bomb worked similarly in that regard. It scales poorly past that though.

My thinking is it's a tracking and consistency thing. If they made Creation take away VP generation on take-out, there would probably need to be some kind of reminder token on the model for the remainder of the game, or at least until it was taken out again.

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On 22/10/2016 at 7:13 AM, Mr Hall said:

I'm in the same boat, being a player who plays control style rosters (lists in other games too) it's a normal game plan and play style seen everywhere.

Just have to learn to play against it.

Or play another game that you do find fun.....

But seriously, hard control is annoying for opponent because it stops them doing what they came to the game to do. There is an asymmetry of "fun" - you still get to do your thing (stop him doing things) & he does not get to do his. 

The same applies to egregiously high damage or fast aggro (in MtG say)  or to a ranged focus in some systems. 

I do not however thing GB has super hard control, just some control effects which as Mr Hall points out are part & parcel of many games like a bit of range & a bit of unusually high damage. You can still mostly play your own game. 

Meanwhile on topic, you actually have to take out new Dirge 4 times to make it worse than before in normal circumstances as outside time out violations the 3rd VP is largely useless. 

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2 minutes ago, PIckles said:

You can't disagree that people find them unfun unless you think they are lying 

 

You are misunderstanding. I personally don't find control unfun. 

Mr Hall likes this

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As an Engineers Player, I quite like the change.

Ultimately mainspring is used as the bug bomb all well and proper but people forget that he has a tackle in slot 1. if he has been over clocked then he can charge for free almost always ensuring the tackle and then pass the ball away, maybe even up the kick too if you have a spare influence. - granted this generally is a two turn approach as you can't assign inf the same turn he is created.

engineers are footballers first after all.

My point is that being able to bring a fully healed mascot back in the middle of the pitch where he can play football and gang up/crown out is worth the VP as you aren't always going to suicide him. 

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