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malladin.ben

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malladin.ben last won the day on July 2

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  1. PITCH FORMATIONS THEORY THREAD V2.0

    For tournament play I'd put deployment on the clock as i think this took me about as long as a typical turn 1 might 😊. Might be worth experimenting with different timer lengths and see what people see works best A lot of this might become faster when we're more used to the format. Playing with a brand new team certainly doesn't help. Would like to get more games in in this format over the next few weeks now that Henry's not practicing for nationals 😊
  2. PITCH FORMATIONS FEEDBACK THREAD V2.0

    Played another game, this time using 2-3-1 formation. Honest Land farmers versus masons (starter box but swapping out the sisters for honour and tower) Compared to the 2-2-2 formation I don't think the 2-3-1 imbalanced things. If anything it added a few more options, which is good. I think the key to this working is forcing teams to out models on the half way line. One thing of note, which may change with better familiarity with the format (and in my case the Farmer's rules) - it wasn't a quick game. After the first turn it just felt like a normal game of guild ball, except that the ruck that had developed was pretty much on the half way line rather than skewed towards one goal or another. The snake deployment with kicker MP made it feel pretty well balanced for the whole of turn 1 and it swung back and forth over the course of the game. We called the game at 11-10, because the ball was dead and it would just be a bit of a slog for one of us to finish so someone off for the final 2 vp.
  3. PITCH FORMATIONS THEORY THREAD V2.0

    Played another game, this time using 2-3-1 formation. Honest Land farmers versus masons (starter box but swapping out the sisters for honour and tower) Compared to the 2-2-2 formation I don't think the 2-3-1 imbalanced things. If anything it added a few more options, which is good. I think the key to this working is forcing teams to out models on the half way line. One thing if note, which may change with better familiarity with the format (and in my case the Farmer's rules) - it wasn't a quick game. After the first turn it just felt like a normal game of guild ball, except that the ruck that had developed was pretty much on the half way line rather than skewed towards one goal or another. The snake deployment with kicker MP made it feel pretty well balanced for the whole of turn 1 and it swung back and forth over the course of the game. We called the game at 11-10, because the ball was dead and it would just be a bit of a slog for one of us to finish so someone off for the final 2 vp.
  4. Ploughman

    There might be a situational use for all that rpigh ground. He'd be funny vs Midas. Just to rub it in 😊 But seriously, most planters bring you 3 INF. Harrow doesnt but he brings tooled up, for which you have several awesome targets in the team, not sure ploughman brings enough to make up for that lack of INF. Maybe if he brought some cheese, chutney and a selection of cold meats...
  5. Ploughman

    We saw the art for Farrow (Fallow?) at the event too. Old lady noted for her independence who nurtured and protects things until they get in trouble and the puts them out of their misery. Possibly some form of VP denial?
  6. Tournaments

    1 captain, 1 mascot and 4 players, provided they are on general release, is legal. Therefore the Farmer's pack is legal. It's not anal, it's misreading things to say you need to have a full 10 man roster.
  7. Can Butchers play football?

    I've used the same team as @Kueller and find it tends to win 2-2 a lot for me, and has the option for 3-0 If your opponent refuses to engage. Fillet and vBrisket both threaten the ball from quite a distance away, and a turn 1 goal from vBrisket when you receive and have Harry is difficult to stop and sets you up nicely for the rest of the game.
  8. That looked like Grace and Benediction to me...

    I also think it makes the honest land pack a bit more playable while we're waiting for the second wave. Grange, Peck, Harrow, Windle, Bushel and Benny is 11 INF. If you swap bushel for Jack straw you're up to 13. Grange and Benny can really fix the scrum for Windle, and Harrow helps him churn out the damage. Plus woth Jack straw in tbecteam you've only got 1 model without a 2" melee zone.
  9. Thoughts on new Ox

    I killed vRage with Ox and vBrisket turn 2, but he's already activated, stolen the ball from vBrisket and heroic played Gutter. Our teams were otherwise lined up again st each other ready to go in on each other, but he had Benny and Strongbox creating a protective cordon to stop me getting to A&G and Gutter. Anyone I send in gets 1 attack and pushed back whilst gutter gets to pick a model and delete them and mist gets to score. Tl:dr - Even killing vRage doesn't massively help - which is the main point of my argument that Ox butchers are struggling because, beyond Meathook, their players are lacking.
  10. Thoughts on new Ox

    Chris, it just wasn't funny. Only once managed to get more than 1 attack off before being counter attacked out of melee. I don't know how you think butchers control the scrum against the likes of Avarisse and Benny. The only model with a halfway achievable KD is Ox, and any 2" melee zones you can play all come with massive drawbacks, so anyone can just push or dodge out if melee and leave you without a chance to spend more than 1 or 2 INF. On top of that, your threat ranges are pretty linear, so it's easy to deny engagement against the models you don't want engaging. I'm not being dismissive when I say I don't know how you control the scrum with butchers. I genuinely don't understand why you think that, how you manage to control the scrum againts a team full of pushes, dodges and 2" melee zones. Seriously, any help would be appreciated. I need to try out Fillet to see if I can get her to work without or with a seriously neutered Harry, but I seriously don't think these changes have helped an Ox team win at all.
  11. Thoughts on new Ox

    I've had a couple of games with new Ox now and I'm starting to form a bit of an opinion on him. It may be subject to change with more games, but I think I've learnt enough about the difference between the new Ox and old in the last two games, and a lot about how old Ox played after playing him solidly for the last 3 months. Firstly, what is different between new and old Ox? New Ox can deal more damage more reliably. He's become, in the words of @Gauntlet after our game last night, "the most supporty of the super-solo captains". Stack him up with five and he'll do a ton of damage, and if he gets pushed out (which is highly likely) he can still chuck out a ton of buffs for the rest of the team. It's an interesting aspect of his new game and certainly adds an extra dimension to his play. The one negative is The loss of the momentous 2>>. There were times when I really could have done with this and had to choose between the >> or the momentous damage and really missed the ability to get both. That result really helps him bring other players into contention and I will mourn it's loss. Other than that he hasn't changed, so he still has several of the same weaknesses of his previous stat line. He is still ridiculously easy to counter attack out of combat. He is still very light and goes down quickly to enemy brawlers. However, there's one previous weakness he has that gains new prominence with how he now plays: he's very linear. It's very easy for a skilled opponent to limit his offensive capabilities. Last night Henry regularly only gave me Benny or Strongbox within range, severely limiting what he can achieve in a turn. I miss Fillet dancing around and have gained a new appreciation for how powerful that is not just how stylish it feels. I think the main problem I've had with old Ox hasn't been addressed at all. The issue with Ox is trying to get enough out if the rest of the team as possible, and if anything that's gotten harder. The game last night vs Vet Rage just brought home to me how stark the difference is between the different toolkits the different captains have at their disposal. Gutter, A&G, and Benny all did some really solid work, amd benefitted on several occasions from both red fury and bloody coin. In contrast Boiler did 0 dmg all game, Minx managed 3 and Meathook 4. All with 1" melee zones and so many opposong models with easy KDs or >> prevented them from getting off more than one or two attacks. In contrast Rage was able to control the scrum, pick his targets and take down 2 models a turn. I play against Henry a lot. He's a top ranked player (7th in the world by my rankings) and regularly beats me. But I feel I can use my relative performance against him as a benchmark for how strong the teams compare in the matchup. I usually manage 6-8 VPs against him, 10 on a good day. Last night I lost 12-2. I quite like the Ox buff for what it does for Ox. He's now pretty beasty. But since s3 he's lost a lot of what made him work: a cheap singled out from Avarisse, a bunch of scything blows from Gutter, shank murdering anything anywhere, all of which benefit from his aura. There was nothing done to help him out in this regard. If his auras had gone back to helping any friendly model it would have brought players like gutter and decimate back into contention (given you're limited to one, would it really be so strong to have done that?). Shank had already been nerfed enough by icy sponge and mascot changes that he didn't need to be influence capped. Butchers really need some better tools in their toolbox. Ox needs some solid damage dealers, both need someone who can push people around and knock them down without losing momentum (now that Harry has lost his ability to KD and Ox lost his 2>>). Avarisse may be the answer, but then Ox needs his aura back if you're going to dump 4 or 5 influence into a union model. I feel so much emphasis was put on the NPE that was Fillet in S2 that butchers as a team has ended up double nerfed. Nerfed once by the core rules and OPD, then again by the nerfs to the models themselves. I want to try and be positive, but I just can't help but feel that butchers are slipping into a bad place and are in serious need of some love.
  12. Worst Team Lineup

    Butchers: Ox, truffles, rage, Shank, Boiler (without princess), Boar. Not enough INF to go around, shank is a deadweight, boiler neutered without assist and everyone apart from boiler has sub-par DEF/ARM. That said, it's not much worse than the best Ox team you could put out 😉
  13. PITCH FORMATIONS THEORY THREAD V2.0

    Fair point. That's why we're all testing it, I guess. Plus, very few models can take out a model in one activation, so if I'm charging 5 separate models I'm unlikely to score more than 1 takeout. And that's five separate models that I'm activating without you doing anything in response. And if I'm doing that I'm completely ignoring the ball so you can probably score 2 goals in the first turn anyway. Yes this will help the take out teams score takeouts more easily, and help them more than the goalscoring teams, butvitvdoes make sxoring goals easier too, and I think a goalscoring team can and should be looking to get 2 goals from the first turn against a takeout team in this format.
  14. Cage Ball match report

    Right. I think we just assumed it was Searing Strike, but it's only burning strike she gains. Would have made the Ox take out at the end even less likely.
  15. Cage Ball match report

    Having realised that now we have 4 models spoiled we can proxy them for a game of Cage Ball me and the lad decided to have a game. He's been wanting Blacksmiths since they were announced at Vengeance, and I've been wanting to give the new Ox a run out for a while. I took: Ox, Truffles, Boar and Minx (makes for a pretty efficient team with Ox getting 5 and everyone else getting 1 each turn) He took: ... well you know the four. He made Anvil his captain. I won the toss and elected to receive. He kicked with Anvil. Ox was able to get the ball, pass it to Boar to dodge him up, then put Butchery and They Ain't Tough on Anvil. Anvil, now in range of Boar, uses his play to dodge everyone 2" up and then jogs back into the line. Truffles sprints up the pitch. Furnace tools up Sledge and moves up a bit. I realise Ox is now within Sledge's threat range, so try a risky pass with boar, it works and I dodge Ox back so that he's outside of Sledge's threat. Boar then moves up so that he's just outside of Sledge's threat. Cinder moves up, attacks Boar with Hot Shot and does 2 momentous damage, burning and an irrelevant -1 ARM. Minx runs down the flank, but can't engage anyone this turn. Slegde also can't do anything, so we go to turn 2 with Blacksmiths up 1 MP to 0. Butchers win the roll off and Boar charges Cinder, which puts him outside of Ox's aura, but he still gets her down to 2 HP. Furnace puts Tooled Up on Sledge again and moves up so that Cinder is in range. This puts him in charge range of Truffles, so the pig charges in and wraps for a KD and a push to give Minx a charge path to him. Sledge goes next and deletes Boar - as a Butcher's player I can really appreciate the beauty of this take out. A free Piledriver from Anvil and he wraps for 8 dmg and a second piledriver. And he does that with the second hit too. Dead Boar, but even I was smiling at how good Sledge is. Can't remember the exact order of the rest of the turn, but Anvil pulls back a bit, Ox charges Sledge and Cinder, but Cinder UM's away, and sledge is left on 2 HP, too, and Minx does a bit of damage to Furnace. Turn 3 butchers are well in control of momentum. I go first and pop Ox's legendary. Sledge goes down to a single hit, then Anvil gets 4 to the face: KD, they ain't tough, butchery and some momentous damage. He's still hanging in there, but is living on borrowed time. Unfortunately I forgot to score with Ox so he only manages to pull the game back to a tie. Anvil gets back up, tackles Ox and passes to Cinder, but then gets taken out by Minx. Cinder runs up and scores. 6-4 Blacksmiths. Turn 4, Sledge and Anvil come back on. Minx takes out Cinder and kick the ball towards Ox, but that puts her in position for Anvil to single her out and KD her, then Sledge can finish her off in 2 hits! Did 11 DMG in the first attack thanks to piledirver and wing back! Just Beautiful again. It also means he can get melee zone on Boar, and hits him for 4 dmg. Boar hits Sledge does a bit of dmg and then KDs him, but then has no targets in range so just positions himself for next turn. Ox manages to retrieve the ball and generate some MP off Furnace (leaving him on 7HP) and then takes a shot but having only 2 MP left I elected not to bonus time, and miss. I only have the pig left, who trues to just generate some momentum off Furnace, but fails with both attacks. Turn 5. Blacksmiths win the roll off at +2 and are in an awkward position. It's 8-6 to them, but their easiest first take out is off the table because Sledge is KD'd, and Boar can happily take him out if I activate first. Cinder comes back on to engage Ox and takes a full stack in the hope to take Ox out before he can activate, or at least put him so low that he risks take out on a counter attack if I attack her back. It's a tense activation, and the first two hits go really well, wrapping damage and getting him down quickly, but then the last attack fails to wrap, meaning she could do 4 non-momentous damage and leave him on 1, or 2 momentous and leave him on 3. He elects to take the lower result and use the MP to heal, in the home that Ox can't take out both her and Furnace in one activation. I have to activate with Ox, as now Ox is within easy kill range of Furnace, and I need two takeouts to win whilst he only needs one. My only chance is if Ox can manage to get 11 dmg to Cinder and 7 to Furnace. Unfortunately for the blacksmiths, he can. A really close fun game that the butchers just squeezed out a 10-8 victory. These two teams are well sited to fighting each other - they both are pretty glass-cannon-y teams and so a lot of it was trading take outs. Furnace was largely underwhelming when he did attack, lacking momentous damage results. Much better just to tool up an apprentice and maybe hit someone once. Anvil was money. The 2" dodge was useful twice in the game, and Singled Out and easy momentous KD really support Sledge well. Cinder is an interesting piece. You can stack her up and she can deal a pretty nice amount of damage, or you can use her as a fairly credible goal threat. Sledge is just awesome and almost has me turned - fucking love him! Unfortunately we didn't get to try out Anvil's legendary play. For the butchers players - new Ox is a very easy piece to use. Stack him up and you'll get work out of him. He's not the Ox he once was - not the same brain ache to play. I think he may now be more fun than Fillet. Cheerio, Ben
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