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  3. vGutter card shown

    I was hoping for something that would give our team a bonus VP for a take out, like Gravedigger. Unsure if that would be too strong in Butchers but Farmers, Hunters, Morticians, Ratcatchers all have bonus VP take out options. Butchers need it personally. But as I said, maybe it was too strong...
  4. Yesterday
  5. vGutter card shown

    I mean vetOx has some enemy movement so she wasn't go to have that, and they weren't going to have her exactly the same as her old model so swapping life drinker for resolute seems fine. I don't really get the insistence on comparing her to her first version. Being friendly guild is super helpful and the original gutter is on the way out. Plus in the meantime, it seems like the overlap of vGutter and Minx will be fun. I think my larger point though is that people seem to be laying all their scorn for sfg at Gutter's feet. There was no way she was saving the guild. It seems to me that she's a perfectly effective model who's above average at basically everything. Decimate is going to be a solid model with 2", the chance to have 4 inf, average defense stats (read best defensive stats in guild) and some sort of tac buff. Very on message. Very usable. Nothing new. The Butcher's forum is a real rough mood right now and I get it. The guild has probably never been in a nicely balanced place. As tough as they have it now, they ran the meta in an unpleasant way for a while too. The main causes of their rise and fall over the years though has been season changes. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect that anything will change until the season does. Not saying it's fair. Just that it seems most likely. The SFG MO has been mid season nerfs and full season revamps. And Butcher's coaches I think are asking for some sort of rework.
  6. Butcher player, new to forums.

    We are in the Willamette valley. I run stuff in Sherwood Or. We have players north in Portland and South in Eugene. So, fairly far west.
  7. Vet Gutter Grapple Hook

    Correctly answered. The jog from Grapple Hook is an additional advance.
  8. Correctly answered; provided Peck is within 6" of Ploughman before he enters the Rough Ground, he can Glide during the advance to ignore the Rough Ground for free.
  9. The Casual Mortician

    Another game against Tapper's Brewers tonight. It was a really weird result, as I lost 12-0 (my worst ever result), and yet I felt I had far more control going on in the first few turns. @Secondbreky agreed I was far more trouble than I was last week. I had Scalpel, Dirge, Bonesaw, Cosset, Silence and Ghast. Graves is still on the painting table, so he's not quite an option yet (though could well be one next time!) I kicked off (with Ghast) this time, which with the new game plans frees me up to pick one with a useful ability as there's very little chance I'll win turn 2 initiative. Everyone trundled up, Cosset luring Hooper out to one side for Ghast to charge (first time that's worked). Silence got shut out off on tapper twice I think, and once on Spigot while he had the ball. Three of the brewers ended up on fire (Scalpel's legendary dragging two into the burning effect), and general mayhem involving me using Unmasking and then Unexpected Arrival to really split up the fledgling scrum. Basically, Guild PinBall instead of regular Guild Ball. Unfortunately, I kept ending up one momentum shy of what I wanted to do, and not getting anything better than one +5 as Game Plans meant I could almost guarantee losing initiative if I wasn't decently ahead in the momentum race. Which meant turn three onwards I had to expect to get hit at least once, hard, before I could shut anything critical down. Mostly though it was me not quite planning out things far enough - I killed the ball brilliantly one turn, but on Spigot, near the opposing goal line, and when I hadn't got any chance of winning a brawling race! I stripped the ball off Friday and got it out onto an open wing, but I'd had Silence and Bonesaw come onto the pitch on opposite flanks and so didn't have enough for a goal run... So yeah, strange game where I made a real nuisance of myself but wasn't actually achieving much in the way of damage or goal runs Entertainingly, Grave's expression this far in the painting process sums it up quite well: On the bright side, Ghast and Silence did pull their weight. If I'd switched in Graves I might've had some more chances to do damage, but the main candidate for that is bonesaw. He really excels when receiving though, so it might be that I use graves when Kicking and Bonesaw when receiving. After all, Scalpel Bonesaw and Silence have decent scoring capacity if I don't bog them down in melee!
  10. vGutter card shown

    Somebody on GuBS "reminded" me (that is - pointed out) that The Owner is guild only. That changes things quite a bit. So, yeah, this definitely improves my opinion quite a bit. I still wish that free jog was a bit safer (that is, didn't necessarily proc a parting blow). Oh, definitely. Love the model. I would love to use this as my Union Gutter.
  11. vGutter card shown

    Lets all just step back, take a breath, and look at how damn THICC the model is.
  12. vGutter card shown

    She'll take the Parting Blow, but the PB happens when she leaves the model's melee zone, so they'll only get one swing (after the PB, she'll be out of their melee range). If they don't have another way to move, that means they'll only ever get to hit her twice (once on the initial attack that provoked the counter, once on the PB). Corner case, but it could save a takeout in the right circumstances. Of course, if she's already hurt, or when some really big hitters are swinging under buffs, two hits might be all it takes...
  13. vGutter card shown

    I guess I get what you're saying... but they have that now in oGutter. Basically, it seems that people have already written off oGutter in Butchers and assumed they will be using vGutter instead, even though her new incarnation is worse in many ways than her old, and Butchers teams can still take the original version. Or they really want to take both Gutter AND another Union option; clearly vGutter enables that. The snarky, jaded side of me (vocal far too often for me these days) wonders if Butchers players have been ignored for so long that anything that isn't outright laughable is seen as great. I don't know - I don't play Butchers yet (they're on the list, for sure), so maybe I don't have the right feel for them to recognize utility. But my read is that a piece that had better enemy re-positioning capability, like pushes or the original Chain Grab or whatever, would serve a more expansive purpose. Or, barring that, make the jog a jog sized dodge. Or, barring that, let her keep Life Drinker ffs. And I fear you are right about Decimate...
  14. vGutter card shown

    Wait, I don't quite understand your scenario. If she Counter Attacks, and hits the 3rd column (and is within 6" of an enemy model), she gets her job without procing a Parting Blow?
  15. Since Tilled Earth allows friendly models to use Gliding for free within the aura and Gliding is not an action, I can't see anything that would prevent you from using it mid-movement.
  16. vGutter card shown

    I've been thinking more about Vet Gutter counter attack potential and have slightly revised my opinion. Hitting 3 succeses with a TAC 7 and Anatomical Precision isn't quite magic Christmas dice and could kill a stack of your opponents INF. If she stays with 6" of an opposing player and the attacking model had to move she would not suffer parting until exiting melee. If the attacker can't generate extra movement . . . And unlike a >> result it works if a 2" player bases her. Not great but not useless either.
  17. Peck begins his activation outside of 6’’ of ploughman and spends an influence to sprint. Peck sprints towards ploughman and is then within 6’’ of ploughman. Peck encounters rough ground during his sprint while within 6’’ of ploughman, can Peck glide for free before touching rough ground even though Peck has already begun moving?
  18. Butcher player, new to forums.

    @Jhokalups ...where are you running things out of sir?
  19. vGutter card shown

    Yeah this expectation is going to be a huge problem I think with everyone's exile... I definitely don't think this was the point of the exiles. The time from voting to release for these models seems particularly tight, and the fact that they are all packaged together makes me feel like they are more about releasing some cool models, and less about rules fixing. I don't expect many of these models to be "exciting." Minx and Hemlock may be an exception because SFG tipped the scales on that one, but even still I doubt they will be game breaking. I think alot of them will fall into the Lucky category. Solid rules, mostly straightforward, sticks to the guild archtype. That being said, I think butchers lists are perfectly happy to have an offensively and defensively competent 2" melee model. It definitely fills a gap. It just doesn't break the skew. And I think Brewers players should gear up for a very similar feeling next week if they are expecting their guild to be fixed from one model.
  20. Counter Charge Discussion

    I play mostly with Masons and think that counter charge is really amazing. You can place Brick in a central position and do not use a single influence on him in the whole game, and he is still contributing. In this way you have more influence to fuel your captain. If the opponent decides to engage Brick to avoid counter charge, he has 2 options: - engage with a weak/not beating model. Then he is risking an easy take out as soon as Honour/Hammer helps a bit -engage with a tough guy. Then he is "wasting" that model on Brick, who can take a beating and last for some time, and not pressing weaker models like Flint, Tower or Mallet In any case, it is a favorable situations for Masons. For me Brick is one of the autoinclude models.
  21. Tactics for the Butchers Guild

    Great Write up Chris (:
  22. vGutter card shown

    I must not understand the purpose of the Exiles (UiC) models. I was under the impression that SFG would take this opportunity to make some slight tweaks to guild capability, as well as smooth some gaps that will be created when the Union models are removed (please note that I don't think SFG ever specifically said this, or even heavily implied it). This model just doesn't accomplish this well, in my opinion. Right now (that is, prior to the Butchers minor guild release), why would one take vGutter over oGutter? She has literally lower damage output potential (because the mom 3 on 5 is clearly less than the mom GB on 5), her re-positioning tricks are less "safe," and she dies easier (losing Life Drinker). vGutter obviously has a place against high ARM teams - but so does oGutter. I love the model, but unless the minor guild players are unexpectedly odd, I don't see her having much impact... I hope I'm proven wrong.
  23. What do we need from a minor guild?

    I'd like to see the condition game dialed up to 11. I'm hoping for a viable 0-6/1-4 plan using purely AOE's and condition damage. I think the guild's existing strikers could use a love tap, I'm still awed at how harsh the Vitriol nerfs were, and they didn't even affect me.
  24. vGutter card shown

    The fact that she can get 4 INF and has a decent range allows Ox to further project his "threat aura" via Butchery. Not sure how my Butchers 10 will look but pretty sure Vet Gutter makes the cut. My only big disappointment his her playbook isn't designed to make great use of Resolute.
  25. vGutter card shown

    In an effort to be positive, the momentous one on the first column combined with anatomical precision make her good at hunting low Def high armor models. I like her chances against someone like Iron.
  26. Counter Charge Discussion

    Counter Charge affects where your opponent can place models and (as others have said) applies clock pressure because most folks will check the distance which adds another measurement when planning out a turn. It impacts the board state even if It never gets proc'd.
  27. Counter Charge Discussion

    Counter-Charge is not optional to play around. It means you can't do what you intended to, and that often leaves sub-optimal or wasted activations, positions, etc. It leaves models vulnerable or slows down a game plan. Just because it never fires, doesn't mean it's not affecting the game.
  28. vGutter card shown

    I’m quite disappointed by the rules and the 5 TAC. if we look at the stats, she is Boiler with a 2’’ melee which is nice and a better kick. But Boiler does have access to the princess gang bang that makes him a fantastic beater. Same playbook length but with a 2 damage momentus on 3... you have to pick your target to deal damages efficiently. like everyone said Grapple Hook is niche and will be useful but it is not a real player defining play so I am a bit sad. we will see in the future if we are wrong about her maybe.
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